Will naim consider the streaming product software upgrade through network ?

At the Naim event I went to recently, they said it would be available as some sort of download which the user could install.  In other words, you shouldn't need to return your equipment to the dealer.

Probably only with Windows machines though as per previous updates.

Leaving us Mac users out again!

How does this work then?  I assumed you would download a file, put it on a USB memory stick, plug it into the Naim box and press some buttons.  Why do you need Windows?

Recent updates has been made in a way described in the instruction document (the Naim web site) which says:

Technical Notification:

Naim Streaming Products Update - Version 3.13

Introduction

This document is intended to provide information and instruction on updating Naim's streaming products operating firmware to Version 3.13. Version 3.13 comprises a variety of core firmware updates.

A PC running Microsoft Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7, and incorporating an RS232 port (or USB port - see bottom of page) is required to undertake the update. The NaimUniti to be updated must be switched on, working correctly and connected to the Internet and an RS232 (or USB port) port while the update procedure takes place.

I see no reason why the update logic cannot be built into the streamer itself.

My Oppo BDP-83SE is a good example.  I go to the firmware menu, hit update, and the task is completed through the internet.

I would be willing to settle for a download to a USB stick, but needing an external PC (and in the case of my early NDX, an RS-232 connection -- what is this, 1995?) to manage the steps of a firmware update process seems just a little too retro in my opinion.

Hook

Yes, i agreed with you.

And they can follow Linn's upgrade firmware solution, use the desktop software to contact the NDX.

Cheers,

marcobb

Me too. But it doesn't look like it's going to happen. I can't for the life of me see why and Naim haven't explained as far as I know.

A royal PITA especially in a Mac household. Linn DS updates were very simple, just download the new firmware and update over the network. 

> I see no reason why the update logic cannot be built into the streamer itself.

Nor do I - it is a complete show stopper as far as I'm concerned ... I can't contemplate the NDS if it means you need Windows to keep it up to date. I'll have to look for an alternative. 

I wonder if Naim could confirm that it will be bringing out a version of the NDS that does not require  Windows ... if so I'll hang on, but if it is not on the roadmap then I might as well make plans to audition alternatives to the NDS. 

How very sensible - now that is a great solution. 

Certainly is. And they work very well.

I still cannot quite get my understanding around Naim's software development plan.

They develop an app which works only on Apple devices and not Android. And then a DTC that works only on Windows.

Then they mandate all streamer updates have to be done via Windows.

I'm struggling to see a logic here - I don't mean technical details, I mean logic for a consumer.

I'd also lay a hefty bet with Naim that not one dealer explains to a new customer they MUST have access to a Windows machine to avail of any future software upgrades. Especially while they are showing them the nifty n-stream app on an iPhone/iPad.

This is an issue that I know a few new Naim customers have been heartily p****d off about.

Naim seems to be very quiet on this one ... I'd love an answer, as I'm beginning to think irrespective of whether the Linn DS streamers sound as good as the Naim ones, at least I can keep them up to date. 

Simple question really - Will I be able to update the NDS without using any Microsoft products? 

If the answer is yes then the NDS will suit fine, if the answer is no then it won't. 

Another thread explains the Synology NAS can transcode to WAV from FLAC on the fly so if the NDS cannot get optimum results from FLAC then there is a Microsoft free solution to the problem. So I'm halfway there. 

Yes, upgrading via network automatically or via a PC within the same network should be the way to go. Many devices like TVs or CD players are able to do this over the Internet. It is hard to understand what is the difficulty here.

+1 here.

The silence is becoming a sign that the answer maybe: No, you cannot update without using Microsfoft products.

Otherwise I think we would have heard. It's not as though these forums are not looked at after all.

Surely if you are considering an NDS plus a power supply (£6k or so) then it's not too much hardship to either borrow or buy (off fleabay (?)) a cheap used Windows laptop to do the job.  I fail to see the big issue...

Hi Guido,

Does this not seem harsh?

It's well documented on here about some really fantastic dealers that go the extra mile to support both customer & Naim.

My personal take is that even if what you say turns out to be true, I would not allow this to stand in he way of the enjoyment that the product would bring.

If I was paying 6k for an NDS (or indeed 3k for an NDX) then I don't see why I should need a windows laptop to support it. 

James,

Fair comment but I suppose my point is this; by buying into a mid range/highish level Naim system I think it is fair to say that a certain degree of 'commitment' is necessary to get the best out of it...(ie leaving powered up, certain cables, set-up, power supplies etc etc, probably only limited by financial outlay!)

Tenuous link here but its synonymous to owning a sports car like a Caterham or (sadly defunct TVR); great fun, especially knowing the extremes of performance, but boy it can be hard work.

If one wants the best and is prepared to pay for it (hence the comment on NDS cost) then I don't see that the firmware upgrade issue, whilst annoying for committed Apple devotees, should sway a decision.

Well I chose to buy an iPod from a company I dislike to control my Unitierve. In fact you do not need to buy a Windows Machine as Naim will send an upgrade disc upon request I believe. Not too much of a hassle.

The NDS does not seem to have a serial port on the back - seems reasonable that there could be a different update procedure?

Can't see why the file on a USB stick approach as used on the DAC would not work on the Streamers? Perhaps the NDX is an exception to the norm?

No serial port on my superuniti , but need the win machine with connection to the usb port for the update.

Vm on my mac does the job for me. 

Alex

Ok, so at least a Windows VM running on a Mac works - not that bad after all... 

Hello DS

My really fantastic dealer would go the extra mile to support both customer & Linn too. I'd still keep my Naim amplifiers and speakers; however having to buy something from Microsoft is a complete show stopper for me. If that is a requirement for keeping the NDS up to date that it is simply not a device I would feel any joy in owning, as I would always have that nagging doubt that I was missing out on something. I'd find a glitch and read on here that it could fixed with an upgrade I couldn't do. 

I have nothing but praise for Naim and its products and I'll keep my Naim amplifier and speakers and may even upgrade them one day. I just don't understand why they do not have a better way to keep their music streamers up to date. I don't think you should need any computer to do it.

Hello Gerry

I accept the UnitiServe can be updated from CD, which again if I had one would be fine. I'm even happy to buy a Synology NAS as I now know its UPnP server can transcode to WAV; this would do the trick if as reported the NDS does work well with other lossless formats.

Still lets see what Naim comes back with, as all this may be unfounded and Naim will announce at launch that NDS updates are available without Windows. Then the world will again be a happier place, 

Although I'm surprised you don't like Apple as a company, I also feel that you should not need to buy a product from a company you don't like to operate your system. 

Again I'm amazed Naim developed the DTC and didn't build a web interface that everybody could use, as an alternative to nServe/nStream (however, I've no problem with the nApps though others might). 

Hello Alex and SKD

Unfortunately it still doesn't give me a Microsoft free solution ... do you know if it would work using Crossover rather than VMware, as this would be an option for me, Crossover does not require a Windows licence. 

Still I've said enough .... If the answer is yes no Windows required then put me down for a NDS, if the answer is no then I'll give the KDS a serious audition

All the best, Guy 

Naim's update procedure is primitive and archaic, and I think lazy too. I'm a Mac user, and even with a  Windows VM it was a major PITA to get the last update to work. There were undocmented software requirements my machine didn't have. Instead of giving me the reason, the Naim updater just crashed. 

The updater is a piss-poor effort on Naim's part. It's an embarassment for something (ND5 XS in my case) that is so expensive. 

It's actually an embarassment for any of Naim's streaming products from UnitiQute upwards.

When £50 wi-fi radios can update themselves automatically this Windows-only software upgrade stance seems positively prehistoric.

Let's be perfectly honest: While Naim's streaming products are excellent machines with superb sound, the software in them is NOT that sophisticated in this day and age.

I really do think Naim is lagging behind Linn on this front and, like it or not, the update process will be an issue for some customers.