HT based on nDAC/555PS/282/HC/250.2

Besides the good suggestion from Hook, you can consider:

- Linn DSM (with hdmi input) front end

- Active surround speakers (ie professional Adam's)

Cheers, Fred

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/2833539985312821

That's the link to my FAQ on how to integrate stereo and AV. 

I wouldn't presume to tell you which speakers etc you should get.  Only auditioning yourself will tell you that.  The only thing I would say is that it helps to get a Centre speaker which tonally matches your front L/R speakers, and the way I did that (before I got the n-System) was to take one of my front speakers to the dealer and test it with various centre speakers as part fo a stereo set up (i.e. Front speaker one channel, centre other channel), set amp to mono and switch back and forth between the speakers.  Of course, I was using Royd Edens as my fronts at that time, which are bookshelf speakers.

Dungassin, thanks for the link and good reading.

But it's a bit too general to my poor brains.

Is there something peculiar about Naim AV (which is no longer in production)?

Can I go for Denon DVD+ AV  (just an example off the head, you may advise a better front end) and plug its L/R channels to 282 using unity gain and use the rest 3.1 outputs straight into Naim power amps and dedicated sub?

I didn't get your point on Linn DS with HDMI. I do realize what it does for hi-fi stereo and I do udnetrsand it can take HDMI input from DVD and make a good stereo out of it.

So it's basically similar to NDX except it can take HDMI signal from external DVD.

But how exactly can use it for HT? (I guess it will be bypassed in HT setup)

There is nothing magic about Naim AV connections.  Just take a lead (probably PHONO>DIN - make sure you have the correct pins connected on the DIN plug!), from the AV amplifier's preamp sockets and connect it to the AV input on the 282.

You can, if you wish, use the AV amplifer's own power amplifiers to drive the Centre and rear/surround channels, or alternatively just connect those remaining channels (centre, rear, surround) to Naim power amplifiers.  Either way I would suggest that it is easiest to use the AV amplifer's subwoofer output to connect to your sub.  At the end of all this, what you have in effect is your AV amplifier preamp driving all the power amplifiers, but just your front channels passing through the 282, which shouldn't contribute anything to the AV side of things at all.

I think the bit about HDMI was not aimed at me, but ... your Linn DS is redundant for the video sound part of things (as is my NDX), so just use it as usual for your music listening.  Assuming you get a recent AV amplifer, then it will have appropriate HDMI etc for bluray anyway.

I would suggest downloading the Naim AV2 manual (it's under Old Manuals) from the Naim website, as it contains connection diagrams.

I note you have a Cymbiosis wedge in your main system.  If you live locally to them, why not just give them a call to help/advise you?

Arthur,

Mail Peter or Geoff for my contact details and send me a email.

Stu.

AMA

Basic blocks in a HT chain are:

DVD/BD player which as well as video can also decode multichannel sound formats and output them, typically offering a set of analog channel signals including SW. These are NOT capable of controlling channel volumes. You need to pass the audio signals to a pre-amp. For the specific case of 2.1 this can be the 282 and the SW amp.

Alternatively the DVD/BD can deliver Dolby/DTS signals via HDMI without decoding them. The typical raw output from the digital SPDIF is also an un-decoded Dolby or DTS signal which the nDAC CANNOT handle. You can probably program a stereo output but only for 2.1 and maybe at reduced audio resolution.

For 5.1 ( & 7.1) you need either an A/V Processor ( the Naim AV2 was an example) which is a sophisticated multi-channel pre amp with a set of analog pre-outs which you can hang the various channel amps off. This will control all channel levels at once. For the front stereo pair you would then program the 282 for Unity Gain which means it acts as a pass through for the audio at the volume set by the A/V processor ( it plays no part in the pre-amping of the front channels). The other functions of the A/V processor are to act as a multichannel DAC for decoding the Dolby /DTS signal delivered via HDMI from the DVD/BD ( in this mode the Analog outs on the DVD/BD aren't used) OR if it has Analog IN sockets it can take the already decoded channels from the DVD/BD Analog outs if you prefer the way they sound.

Alternatively you can go for an A/V Receiver which performs the same functions as an A/V Processor but adds a set of power amp boards for the channel amplification. Again you connect the front pair to the 282 in Unity Gain mode but the rest of the speakers are connected to the A/V Receiver amps. These do a pretty good job fro the surround channels and are a much less expensive way of amplifying them compared to adding further Naim amps.

The most important OTHER things that either the A/V Processor or Receiver does on top of the above are:

- To run a setup routine which is used to set the distances of the various speakers from where you listen and hence the delay time of the channels so they all arrive at your ears correctly together with balancing all the channel volumes so they have the correct comparative loudness as the volume control is used

 - To SYNC the Video and Audio signals so that when you watch movies/TV the speech is in sync with the movement of the actors mouths. Most annoying when incorrect.

Note that these two functions are NOT really manageable from a DVD/BD player AND that if you try to use the DVD/BD digital out to run the nDAC you will loose control of these functions and TBH you won't hear any audio benefit since multichannel is an 'unnatural' sound format which is more about a sound field than audio DAC quality. ( though SACD and DVD-A can be very good).

Hope this helps

Geoff

I did a careful reading of above and I certainly put this as guideline for my future HT setup.

But it comes to my head that my nDAC/555PS/282/HC/250.2 is possibly the wrong platform for HT.

It's better and easier to go for a dedicated high quality HT setup. Like Lexicon, for example...

If you are prepared to spend the sort of money involved for a setup based on the likes of Lexicon that is one way to go.

IMO the main considerations beyond the use of proper A/V hardware is the room area you will allocate to an HT set-up and the wether you will want to use the system for HQ stereo listening as well.

On the other thread you were saying you are short on space and there was a discussion about on or in-wall speakers. With restricted space the surround sound results will be somewhat constrained. I am sure you will get a result but is it worth spending a lot on, unless the HT system can be placed in a larger area room?

Geoff 

AMA,

Lexicon do have a good rep - but some of their products are just re-engineered products, then given a huge price jump.

http://hd.engadget.com/2010/01...3500-blu-ray-player/

I have used Lexicon in the past - and then moved to the Naim AV2, which I still think is a superb processor; but, it depends on what you want.

To my ears the AV2 is the best musical processor, bar none, although I will shade this in a second! However, it is not neccessarily the best for sound steering & 'wham, bam thank you mam'.

My primary AV setup is:

Oppo BR (as used by Lexicon!)

Naim AV2

nDAC + PSU

EAR Amps (main)

NAP 140 (Centre)

NAP 250 (Rears)

REL Strata III sub.

I use the Oppo to stream my movies from my NAS primarily. If the DVD had a PCM soundtrack then this gets fed through the nDAC.

I would emphasis that the SQ via the Oppo/nDAC is NOT as good as the NS01/nDAC, so when I rip the DVD I also extract the Soundtrack to WAV for playback via the NS01.

It took me YEARS to get to somewhere where I feel fully comfortable, and although I have LONG thought about changing the AV2 I just haven't heard anything that has convinced me.

I don't think there are any shortcuts here - it is worth spending the time borrowing and listening.

With regard to my shading mentioned above. One reason for getting the Oppo was the 5.1 output, which I feed into the AV2. I bought the BR of 'Shine a Light'. Playing back DTS vs HD soundtracks we all picked the Oppo decoded HD, the first time we have all unambiguously made that observation - up 'til now it has been a case of different, but not necessarily better - in this house (others will disagree).

M

Gents, I keep reading your posts and keep thinking on various possibilities.

I think I had a mess in my head before.

Now I'm trying to sort this out and put the Stereo and HT into two different categories:

Stereo = nDAC/555PS/282/HC + 250.2/Katana (speakers)

HT = Oppo/AV2 +250.2/Katana + 175/Central/Rear + SUB (providing AV2 passes through 282 unity gain to 250.2)

If this is correct then intersection between the two systems is pretty minimal: 250.2/Katana.

And it's not the fact that a superb pair of Katana speakers will be actually a good match to the Central/Rear speakers in HT terms.

Is that the right line of thoughts?

Hi AMA,

I'll try to explaIn the DSM path.

I'm also trying to mix 2.0 with AV, without too much compromises. As far as I understand, the DSM does 2.0: streamer, DAC, Pre (3 boxes in one)? For AV the main benefit I see in the DSM is that hdmi input is splits in stereo vs other channels, meaning the digital stereo signal is only converted by the Linn DAC, and directly directly routed to the pre section ( remaining channels and video signal are led true to the AV processor). I reckon that also for movies the FL and FR are the most important speakers, with this digital hub they get most priority and make a very good source for stereo listening

+ it will cut down boxes :-)

Cheers, Fred

Fred,

I think I know what KDSM is doing in terms of AV.

It takes HDMI audio/video and then turn audio into a 2.0 straight into power amp and push video out through HDMI output to TV.

It does not add much more to what I already have: nDAC/555PS/282/HC.

The only difference is that all video players (DVD and streamers) have optical output whichI connect straight into DAC so I bypass the HDMI chain.

Another good reason is that KDSM is a small elegant box while nDAC/555PS/282/HC is a 4-box, 4-shelves, 4-powerlines system 

Getting back to original question in thread: no matter if I use nDAC/555PS/282/HC or KDSM -- how shall I go further to turn in into a complete HT 5.1 ?

Hi guys

AMA I have e-mailed you a Linn Doc ( link here might upset Naim) about how HDMi on the DSM functions which explains how you use it with an A/V receiver and the various modes you can setup including 'down mix' of the Center channel to the Front L & R if you don't have a Center speaker. Also it is also possible to redirect the LFE ( SUB) channel to the main speakers aswell, Those functions would allow you some options WITHOUT actually using an A/V receiver. You could also connect speaker level signals from the main L & R speakers to a suitable SUB to reinforce bass.

AMA/Fred

As a I mentioned earlier above Audio /Video sync is an important adjustment. The KDSM has settings to do this.

So the Linn DSMs ( Akurate or Klimax are mentioned) are very flexible preamps which can output the front stereo signals to you power amp and pass HDMI surround channel signals onward to an A/V receiver and take control of all channel volumes through their remotes OR can go some way towards a really good down mixed stereo version of HT surround sound WITHOUT an A/V receiver. It depends how much you prefer to go for a full set of surround speakers which way you would use a DSM.

Bear in mind that as with the Naim nDAC you will need to set a DVD/BD player to provide PCM output through it's HDMI port.

Also it IS POSSIBLE to connect an SPDIF or Toslink signal to the DSM but again it would have to be PCM and you would loose all the extra control functions available via HDMI and gain nothing as far as I can see.

regards

Geoff 

My room is less than 3m square. I have successfully integrated Naim Superuniti / NAP250.2 and PMC Fact 3's as a stereo system, plus a Meridian DSP processor, 3 Meridian DSP front 'speakers, a 12" subwoofer,and six rear wall mounted wide dispersion rear/side 'speakers powered by a Rotel six-channel amplifier. Oh yes, plus a Blu Ray player, Sky HD and 50 inch Tv. It all works very well and sounds great. The point is that it can be done relatively successfully with a bit of effort and planning. Of course, it depends on one's personal requirements and standards in the end.

Wow, if you like to share a picture, I would love to see the result

Fred

I'm on holiday with the wrong computer at the moment, but I'd be happy to post one when I get back in a couple of weeks if you really want to see it.

Ah, happy holiday jobseeker! 

When it suits you, also possible to mail (you can find the adress in my profile)

Cheers, Fred

There you go, Fred. I forgot I had a quick pic saved in my online photo-stream. Set-up breaks loads of rules, but I don't care cos it's still great ! The pic makes it look rather more squashed-up than it it is in reality. The rear 'speakers are arranged in a kind of arc on the back wall, surrounding the listening sofa.

Thanks jobseeker - that looks very neat and well organized! Given the room size with the setup, I can imagen you don't get the impression the room is (too) small. The proportions are all well in balance (ie speaker width).

Thanks, Fred