Pissed off big time part 2

Posted by: maze on 13 July 2012

This is a follow on thread to Gale 401's rant about his letter from the stazi, sorry council re: playing music too loud.

Mine is a different subject but the issue is of a similar tone.

I live in a small (5 houses) private close, our boundary perimiter fence in front of our houses was in a poor state of repair so myself and 3 other residents decided to take down the old fence and replace it with a new picket fence only across our own boundaries. We checked with the council on two occassions to see if we need planning permission, no was the reply as there is already a fence there so long as we do not make the fence any higher than the old fence was. This was also confirmed on the councils planning portal website.

 

A month down the line and I get a letter telling me I have erected a fence without planning permission and I have until Julty 27 to take all of the fence down.In the letter I am told I can apply for planning permission, but not to bother as I will not get it. The content and tone of the letter is really quite scary, I feel like we are now livivng in a police state. We thought we had done the right thing to be told otherwise.

It is quite obvious someone has made a complaint reading other content in the letter. The council also say that the fence is not in keeping with the surroundings of the area, what a joke. To the right and left of our fence is a steel fence you would see on a industrial area, something that would surround a factory.

 

What is it with these planning depts? The distress and trouble they cause. Two mile up the road from us is a illegal gypsy site thats been there for a bout four years and still nothing gets done about it.

 

So yeah at the moment pissed off really big time. Beam me up scotty i'm ready to explode!

Posted on: 13 July 2012 by DrMark

All western societies are moving into police state mentality, where you no longer have any private property rights.  It seems that you are being abused to me, and the sad part is that you will likely have no recourse.  I guess the only thing to be learned from this is that on your earlier queries you should have had them provide an answer in writing.

 

Most HOAs and planning commissions seem to be populated by a-holes who just like having the authority to tell people what to do.  Gives them a chance to feel important, when in reality they are no more significant than a bug you accidentally stepped on walking down the street.

Posted on: 13 July 2012 by madasafish

the two occasions you sought advice from the planning office, did that advice come to you by email or in writing? If so, cite it.

Posted on: 13 July 2012 by maze

madasafish, unfortunatley they were telephone conversations, however the planning portal website clearly states what I have said in my first post, I have just had a email from the idiot who sent me the letter asking me to direct him to the site where I aquired the information, what a useless **** he is , I have to tell hime where to look on the councils own web portal.

Since my complaint to him he has toned down his wording and now seems more ameanable towards us seeking a solution.

Posted on: 13 July 2012 by madasafish

if there's dialogue that's a good sign. You can now up the ante and, if they want the fence down, invite them to get on with it and make good. If they want to, I bet they could nod through a retrospective planning application on your behalf to put the issue to bed.

Posted on: 13 July 2012 by maze
yes, I have been in touch with our local councillor who has hinted at retrospective planning, he has also come round and said that the fence looks fine. What I have not ascertained from the planning dept is why only I have had a letter, as there are two other dwellings involved here. I still can't get over the fact that I have to point the planning to the website, their own website that clearly states what we can and can't do re the fence. Thanks for all your input.
Posted on: 14 July 2012 by mista h

Just a suggestion.

Go onto the councils website,and print out a copy of what they say before they alter it THEN should things turn ugly at a later date you have hard copy.

Should it go to court they wont have a leg to stand on.

Mista h

Posted on: 14 July 2012 by Christopher_M

Is your MP a Tory? If so, get them involved. He/ she will like nothing more than standing up in the house and asking Cameron about the plight of some of his/her constituents who tried to do the right thing yet were stymied by council bureaucrats.

 

Make sure that you and your neighbours are going to be ok to appear in the press first.

 

Best,

Chris

 

Posted on: 14 July 2012 by trickydickie

It is likely that the calls were recorded, so ask for a copy of it.

 

We had a similar situation a few years ago.  We have a long back garden that used to have a garage at the end that opened on to a lane, whilst this was a long time ago it was still marked on the Land Registry maps.

 

We decided to erect a new garage, and to remove any doubt wrote to the council asking if planning permission was required.  We pointed out that the garage would be approximately where shown in the plans and even included pictures of the site stating that the garage would start where the boundary currently was, identifying the fence as the start.

 

A letter came back from the council stating no permission was required so we went ahead and built,

 

Some months later we received a letter stating that we had breached planning regulations as the front of the garage was within X metres of a road and was closer to this road than the front of our house (it would be as this was in the back garden!).  The road is a cul-de-sac which can be viewed by peering over a 6 foot wall.  When we challenged it they said that we had not built where we said we would, later the council did admit that they only looked at the plan and not the photos.

 

The result was that we had to apply for planning permission despite the clear mistake by the council.  

 

The compentance of the council was severely in doubt when they visited to view the site.  Firstly they didn't tun up when arranged so had to quickly drive round.  My wife then took them down the garden, opened the back entrance of the garage, walked the officer through 28' of garage into the lane.  He then turned round, looking at the new garage and asked us where the garage was!  Had was not want to antagonise them I'm sure that my wife could have become rather offensive at this point!

 

Fortunately they granted permission.

 

I think you will probably have to go through the motions like we did, but it would be best if you can gather any evidence of incompetance first.  When we applied we included copies of the council's as this then becomes available for public viewing on the councils web site so it helps to show your case favourably and also serves to show that you didn't build without consideration to planning.

 

Good luck!

Posted on: 14 July 2012 by maze
unfortunately Chris ours is a labour run council, I hear what you are saying though. Tricky some good points you raise there. I am astounded at the incompetence of the letter I got from the council, in it I am told I have to take down the fence in it's entirety, which I take to mean my two neighbours fences too. In other words I am being asked to criminally damage someone else's property. Neither my two neighbours has had a letter about this, how incompetent can it get? I am considering making a formal complaint to the council about this persons handling of the matter. The said person is also asking me to PDF him the part on their website that I have gained the information about not requiring planning, again total incompetence. Luckily I have printed off copies in case they make changes to what it says on the webpage. My local councillor has been helpful and has said that the fence looks fine and has suggested retrospective planning. If the dimwit council said at the start that we would need planning we would have submit a application.
Posted on: 14 July 2012 by Derry

Was the new fence materially different from the old one?

Posted on: 14 July 2012 by maze
yes the old fence was a chain link fence with concrete posts, the new fence is a timber picket fence to the same height.The old fence is what you would see around any industrial development, not really suitable to a residential area. I do think though that the material difference may be the crux of the matter. You can viewall the information here, paragraph two. www.planningportal.gov.uk/perm...cts/fenceswallsgates There is no mention of having to use the same materials.
Posted on: 14 July 2012 by maze
that should read. planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/fenceswallsgates
Posted on: 14 July 2012 by Derry

The Planning Portal is quite clear:

 

"You will not need to apply for planning permission to take down a fence, wall,or gate, or to alter, maintain or improve an existing fence, wall or gate (no matter how high) if you don't increase its height."

 

What it does not say is whether you need permission to replace the existing fence with some different type of fence.

Posted on: 14 July 2012 by maze
Exactly my point, supplying only half the information is as good as no information. I have written to the planner in question regarding this seeking clarity, I am sure he will try and twist things to his favour. I wish you could see the first letter we got from him, absolutely appalling the way it was worded. my neighbours have still not had a letter requesting they take their fences down. I am sure someone must have made a complaint about our fence, if so under the freedom of information act, I have a right to ask from who and they are obliged to supply the information.