NAS Devices: Basic info for a complete novice

Very nice if you can afford it Jason but the op has already stated can't afford the Naim offerings and would like to dip a toe in the water of streaming. Personally I think the naim offerings are unnecessarily expensive and the software clunky and unreliable. I will agree that the streamers sound good, however as has been said on other threads they don't suit all naimees who wish to use other systems

Jason, my thoughts a year ago (and still today) is that the UnitiServe might have a long shelf life because it has no dac built in.  So long as the digital output it provides remains the current standard, it should "work" to provide 0's and 1's to any dac.  If dac technology hits tremendous new highs, I can replace the nDAC.  And until then, it does sound great (and much better than the $500 dac's I auditioned).  Of course this plays into the argument that it is "expensive for what it does" and I do not disagree with that, but accept it.

The storage capacity of the uServe is not an issue for me, as I only have a few hundred cd's and do not buy that many cd's.  The part that was missing for me on the uServe was the "serving" of digital files that I did not rip from cd, and I am handling that now via a NAS.  Of course the recent updating of the uServe would have rendered the NAS unnecessary for that function, but the NAS comes in quite handy for other things and I do not regret having bought it (as otherwise I would STILL be putting all those files on little usb sticks into the back of the uServe!).

Thanks for your clarification, bazz.

How is this done? If you mean you enter composer name instead of artist name in the Artist field, you will not be able to search by artist. What I need is the ability to search by composer and artist.

Can't be done under Twonky 6.x even if you have the metadata tagged. As Twonky 7.x is now out for QNAP then it may be worth playing with to see if there are customised search trees.  However, from a quick look at forums there appear to be issues with 7.x and many users are reverting back to their previous versions.

An alternative possibility is to use Folder view and organise your files in Composer Folders but the metadata set to Artist as you currently have it. Would need some trial and error but should give you an alternate search view.

Unless someone else comes up with a QPKG alternative then QNAP users are stuck with Twonky for now.

How about MinimServer? I've not tried it myself and it looks like a work in progress but there is a QPKG so it may be worth a try.

Yes, that is what I mean, though often, when ripping using dBpoweramp, the Composer is entered in both Composer and Artist fields.  If it isn't, I edit it.  So by looking through my list of artists I get Beethoven and The Beatles.  If you mean you want to be able to search for orchestra / conductor / soloist as well as composer, I don't think that can be done.

Sorry to dredge this up again, but the thread (which I just discovered) has answered many questions I had about NAS as opposed to Unitiserve.  But although I am learning, I still have some pretty basic gaps.  When we speak about the Squeezebox and/or the Vortex Box, if one owns a Naim streamer--I am thinking of the Unitiqute, NaimUniti 2, and SuperUniti here--does that serve the same function as the Vortex and the Squeeze?  Another way of asking this is: Are the Vortex and Squeeze just lower priced streaming devices to get between the NAS (or PC) and the amplifier?

Russ

Yes.

Hello Russ

Squeezebox manufactures a range of products that stream music similar to the Naim units you refer to but at a significantly lower price. These of course are aimed at a different market and therefore IMO of course are not comparable to the sound obtained from the Naim products.

The other difference is that they require a different server, (Squeezebox server), to be running on your NAS or computer for them to find and play your music files.

Naim streamers require a UPnP server to be running on your NAS or computer to play your music.

Vortexbox although I have not used it, can be downloaded onto a spare/unused computer and become a dedicated UPnP server suitable for supplying music to your Naim streamer; this would overwrite the operating system so would need to be a spare/unused unit. You can also buy a fully configured Vortexbox in the same way you could buy a NAS.

Regards

Peter

Thanks, Peter.  So when you say: "...Vortexbox...can be dlowloaded onto a spare/unused computer...", you mean that you load up an old computer with the Vortexbox software but don't need the Vortexbox hardware--interesting.  That is the first I knew of that.  And I suppose the difference between your and others assessment that these devices may not offer the same SQ as the Naim  units (on the one hand) and the others who use these pieces on a regular basis and seem to like them--is the same friendly argument between "Bits are bits" and "By God, I can hear the difference." 

So I think what I am hearing is that if I have either a SuperUniti, Naimuniti 2, or Unitiqute, I don't need the Squeezebox, Vortexbox, or the old PC acting as the VB--I can just input either a NAS or a PC or Apple acting as an NAS--into the SU, Naimuniti, or UQ--as long as I have UPnP running on the NAS.  Am I getting close, here?

Thanks again,

Russ

Should have read my post earlier in the thread.........................

Hi Russ

Yes, you get the idea. If you buy a Naim streamer you will need a device running a UPnP server, NAS, PC, Mac & Vortexbox are examples. Of course the Naim HDX, Unitiserve and the Naimnet NS01 etc are all servers as well.

You say that you can hear the difference between how the Bits are delivered, this does not surprise me as I feel the same. Whether real or imagined might be debatable, but if you believe it, that’s all that matters. This does not mean that there is any difference between the rips themselves, surely that is an argument that has been done to death here. This is more to do with the machine that is running the server (old PC – may introduce noise etc), this is what I believe Naim have addressed in their servers.

It does mean that you may need to experiment or at least listen to as many options as possible to find an expectable solution for you. So, no change there then, its much like listening to any other component you are adding to your system, though perhaps more subtle than some.

Regards

Peter

> You load up an old computer with the Vortexbox software but don't need the Vortexbox hardware--interesting.  That is the first I knew of that.  And I suppose the difference between your and others assessment that these devices may not offer the same SQ as the Naim  units (on the one hand)

Vortexbox is a complete environment (it is based on a Linux kernel, no Windows in sight) - you just need hardware .(which it takes over) .. IMHO the UnitiServe sounds as good as Vortexbox, so I would not expect any loss of SQ through my UQ if I changed to a UnitiServe from my Vortexbox (but not going to). Of course, as Peter implies if you build the Vortexbox on dreadful old noisy PC then it'll shove rubbish through the mains and affect your UQ. However, you can get some very good hardware for Vortexbox without breaking the bank. 

The Mac Mini on the other hand is much simpler, as it is a complete music server/player and is very low noise. There is no reason why this should not sound as good as anything through your UQ. I certainly does through my Naim DAC - only a Meridian CDP transport sounded better to me and this is because it up-samples very cleverly so the bits are not the same: silly price from a transport though. 

However, only you can decide if there is a difference between the many wide and wondrous ways of playing computer music ... again as Peter says it is what you hear that matters. Amazingly  I think  it rivals my Dolby S Cassette Deck (making it redundant ), but not the LP12. 

Me, as you guessed, I don't think there is any difference in SQ or ease of use between VB, US or MM (well TBH I think the Mac just shades it on ease of use). If you buy a ready built VB it can be pre-configured for Naim. All the devices rip equally well though with the Mac Mini you need to add a Samsung or Toshiba USB drive (not the Apple one on this occasion). 

Focalist: Sorry--it is a long thread and I guess I smoked too much Ganja weed in the 'sixties.  Unlike Bill Clinton, I occasionally inhaled.  And unlike Hillary, I always exhaled!

Russ

Peter: Actually, I didn't mean to say that I can tell the difference.  I have just started listening in the digitial world--and have damned little of that.  I was just reciting that I recognized the controversy--of which I have read much on these forums--a controversy which I sense is very much like that between the folks who take the engineering approach to measuring all the parameters of sound and those who listen and pronounce the sound beautiful--or not.  Kind of like me looking at an old master or Andy Warhol's Campbell's soup can that sold for about fifty trillion dollars.  I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. 

Guido: You are really starting to convince me on the Mini.  But I asked this question over on Jason's thread: How do you rip from the external drive to the Mini--if it is headless?  You can't see anything on a display--or click the mouse--or peck on the keyboard.  What am I missing?

Russ 

You probably need a monitor (or TV) and mouse to set it up the first time and turn on screen sharing. Once that is done it is easy. Set iTunes (during initial setup or by using screen sharing from another computer) to rip a disc automatically when inserted, and eject when done.  Once this is done just stick the disc in, and put it away when done.  I use the screen sharing function to check and edit cover art and tags from my laptop.

Russ, ah sorry I misinterpreted what you wrote. Glad that I am not alone with a clear view of what is art.

With regard to getting your files onto a Mac Mini, could you not use your current Mac/PC to rip and then transfer the rips across the network to the Mini? I admit to knowing nothing about Macs, dislike the Co. However, I would think this should not be a problem, no need for a screen.

Peter

Peter and Winky: Don't actually own any Mac HW yet.  Just thinking about going that direction and this would  be a good excuse.  If I did go the Mini route, I would go ahead and add a mouse/keyboard and cheap small monitor.

If any of you read my thread on keeping the Guru speakers in cabinets, what I hesitated to tell everyone, for fear I would be run off the board--was that in addition to enclosing the speakers in cabinets, I might have to put the component(s) including the CD Transport in one of the cabinets with the speakers!

Now that I understand that I can communicate with any of the Uniti devices via wifi from the I-phone through the network cable to the device itself, I am feeling that the best solution will be to put all components in a closet (well-cooled, mind you) about 15 feet away.  The downside will be putting a new CD in every time I want to play one--but I can live with that.  Since I have to walk a few feet AND lift the CD each time, I can count it both as aerobic AND strength training.

All day I have been trying to figure out a way to afford the SU and speakers plus either a low priced transport (say 500 USD or what, 320 pounds?) or the Macmini outfit.  I suspect that the SuperUniti quality level would end up being my ultimate target anyway, so why go with the NU2 or the UQ?  Then if I turned out to be wrong and wanted to upgrade, I could sell the SU as well as I could the Unity 2.

Decisions, decisions.

Russ

Hi Russ

CD transport? – Once you start streaming you probably will not want to bother with one of those again. Streaming is so versatile I would suggest that you would decide to find another way to build your aerobic strength – there are better ways.

Regards

Peter

Russ, You will need a keyboard/mouse for setting up the Mac Mini ... any USB devices should work and it has HDMI to connect to a TV as a screen or it can use DVI/VGA. There are touchscreens available, but never used one. Once set up you can control it from a VNC app on your iPhone (i use it on an iPad and it is fine, but might be a bit more awkward on a phone).

As Peter says, you can easily move files on to a Mac as it supports most file sharing options. I use NFS, but you can use SMB (Windows file share) or AFS. 

Ripping is best done with either iTunes or XLD as this will ensure the integrity of your iTunes library. XLD is the ripper that uses Accurate Rip to ensure bit perfect rips and tell you if it can't. iTunes does bit perfect, but doesn't apply the checks so you have to trust it. 

XLD will spot you've inserted a CD, rip it, get the artwork (mostly), put it in your iTunes library, eject the CD when done and make the tea. Sorry about that last bit. 

If you used Decibel as your player then you could rip to FLAC using just about any ripper and keep the files on an external drive and just plug it in when you wanted. Decibel will play just about anything. 

Lots of options as always, but it is easy to get it work. 

Peter, why don;t you like Apple as a company? I've always found them most helpful and a breath of fresh air from the times when I had to deal with the Gatesian empire. Though they are not Naim, Linn, Rega or conrad-johnson when it comes to support, as computer companies are not like that. 

Guy

My thanks to everyone.  Having thoroughly hijacked not only this thread, but Jason's as well (...Dealer Comments), I am going to do a lot of research, both on these forums and on the internet in general as to NAS, and bow out.  I have decided I am really being a whining, puhling wuss given my hesitancy to set up a NAS system, especially since I have a honking big Dell in the other room and a great, screaming internet connection.  I will either attach an NAS to the Dell (seems the cheapest way) or cough up another grand or so later on and go the Mini Route (My thanks to Guido and others for budging me on this).

So I intend, after doing all this research, provided I have not yet worn out my welcome, to return to this board and open a new thread to get pointers on going forward.  My current status (which I know you have all put your days and nights on hold to hear ) is this:

1.  I have found my speakers.  Unless someone comes along and forces me to audition others, I really like the Guru QM10 two units, which I auditioned via the Super Uniti and a CD transport of unknown provenance.  I played various tracks from the re-mastered White Album, an early (Van Cliburn--1958) and a much more recent (Kissin), version of Tschaikovsy's First Piano Concerto, some Guty Cardenas, recorded in San Antonio in the 1920 s, and the Circle Album (for female vocals).  I also listened to what the SU and these speakers can do for internet radio (King FM Seattle).  So I have heard a wide variety of sources and sound quality.

2.  I have pretty much determined that with my functional requirements for good sound and the limitations on my listening space, that my target system would the SU and Guru speakers, fed by a music server--ultimately the Unitiserve, but who knows.  So I want to make the SU happen and if I can do the deal now, it will limit the loss if I had to upgrade.  And if, against my current thinking, I decide I have to upgrade, then I can start adding a different preamp, the DAC, a power supply or two, a couople of $5,000 cables and all the rest.    (Please note, I am not casting any aspersion on those who do--and I assure you if I had the money I would probably drop a couple of hundred thousand on the best there is!)

So my thanks, and see y'all later.

Russ

Hi Guy

Since seeing your question I have been trying to recall which machine it was my misfortune to purchase that gave rise to my dislike for the company – I’ve been trying to forget them to be honest.   From memory and searching the net I would say it looks like the Apple II model; can’t be 100% sure but it looks very close. Early 80’s I would say.

Very unpleasant experience, the exact opposite to yours it would seem. Personally I have no real complaint with the opposition, used them for years to great effect.

I had been a Naim customer for several years by that time and knew how a decent company treats its customers; not that I had then or now had a duff product from Naim.

Anyway, I felt that the poor old PC needed a champion against the upstart to level the playing field here.

All the best

Peter