Unitiserve SSD versus Unitiserve 2 TB

HI,

If you own a Nas drive you do not lose functionality, since you can store the ripped cd's on the nas drive, and ensure another backup to prevent data loss. With the 2 tb version you can have one copy of all your ripped cds and the music you download on the hard disk inside the Unity serve, but you still need a nas for external backup unless you are a very brave person that likes to rerip your cd collection sometimes in the future, and maybe buy all your downloads a second time.

People seem to disagree on wich version of the unity serve that sounds best. Some favor the ssd version, some the 2 tb version when it comes to sound quality.

I have not seen an unity serve, but some people have complaint over the noise generated from the  hd version, obviously the ssd disk itself is totally silent. In theory the ssd Unity should have a longer life before something inside fails, but you never really know, also because we are told that Naim are using hard disks that are tested to sork in servers, aand therefore are expected to live longer on average than a consumer hard disk.

You may run into network issues with the ssd version because you stream over the network, on the 2 tb version all music are on the internal disk in the unit.

I would if I were you consider alternatives to using the unity serve as a server for a Naim streamer, for the same money you can buy the Naim dac, and if you choose the hd unity serve with ndac, you can avoid ppottential network streaming problems, internet radio does usually work as soon as the unity has a nconnection to the internet.

Claus

Thank you, Claus.  I find I am still struggling with this issue, however.  Let me try to clarify:

"If you own a Nas drive you do not lose functionality, since you can store the ripped cd's on the nas drive, and ensure another backup to prevent data loss. With the 2 tb version you can have one copy of all your ripped cds and the music you download on the hard disk inside the Unity serve, but you still need a nas for external backup unless you are a very brave person that likes to rerip your cd collection sometimes in the future, and maybe buy all your downloads a second time." Understood.  And I would certainly want a backup with either drive.  So far, with both units, I will need my data in two places.  But with the SSD unit, I also, (in addition to the extra money for the solid state storage) have to buy and maintain two separate, offline units.

"People seem to disagree on wich version of the unity serve that sounds best. Some favor the ssd version, some the 2 tb version when it comes to sound quality." Understood that reasonable audiophiles could differ on this, as on most other subjects. 

"I have not seen an unity serve, but some people have complaint over the noise generated from the  hd version, obviously the ssd disk itself is totally silent."  I have read this elsewher in this forum.

"In theory the ssd Unity should have a longer life before something inside fails, but you never really know, also because we are told that Naim are using hard disks that are tested to sork in servers, aand therefore are expected to live longer on average than a consumer hard disk." Again, this all makes sense.

"You may run into network issues with the ssd version because you stream over the network, on the 2 tb version all music are on the internal disk in the unit.  Also understood.

I would if I were you consider alternatives to using the unity serve as a server for a Naim streamer, for the same money you can buy the Naim dac, and if you choose the hd unity serve with ndac, you can avoid ppottential network streaming problems, internet radio does usually work as soon as the unity has a nconnection to the internet."  My thanks for this as well, but I am considering the Qute and the Serve for budgetary reasons.  If I now throw in a DAC, duplicating (although in a superior way) the DAC functionality of the Qute, I am now way over budget.

So here is my quandry: Almost everything you say in your comparison is that the 2TB version is superior in almost every way to the SSD, except, as you point out, in the areas of noise and possible equipment life.  But I am still struggling with why else anyone would want the SSD which holds no real music within.  I have thought that perhaps the SSD unit uses its solid state memory as a form of cache to make delivery faster or clearer--but I wouldn't think that to be true.

Best regards,

Russ

My thanks, Claus and Bart,

So let's assume I assume if I have say, ten percent of the 2TB filled with data--say some 250 CD s and other, downloaded tracks, and I attempt to back them up to a smaller external hard drive.  I THINK I am correct that only the real data gets backed up, not the hexadecimal "40" bytes. 

I also like having the ability (with either of these servers) to rip directly into it, rather than become a slave to a P.C.  I am assuming that if I relied only on a NAS, I would have to rip to it through a P.C.  ? 

Regards,

Russ

Personally I'd buy a Mac Mini or Vortexbox and spend the money saved elsewhere on the system or on music ... I've never seen the appeal of US, although it does what it is supposed to do well enough. Just seems expensive and lacks versatility. The best ripper is probably dBPA on a PC because it can process HDCDs, but otherwise all the rippers I've tried produce the same results. Moreover, I cannot tell one music server from another when streaming and I heard nothing better than a Mac Mini or Denon as an S/PDIF transport. 

Others have explained the US SSD vs US HDD, but my choice is something else and you'll hear a lot more benefit max'ing out your DAC than you will from the front end. 

If you own a NAS drive with UPnP support then you don't need a US ... you can stream directly to a Naim streaming box or a Denon + Naim DAC (best choice [IMO] until you get to NDS level). 

I'm remain totally puzzled by the US SSD. 

However the Naim Servers are perfectly good at what they do so I'm not criticising its build, function or the support ... just think it is not a priority in building a system. So I would not invest in a Naim Server until everything else is as good as you can get it. 

Just some food for thought, 

Guido,

I think most people agree with your assessment--and I have not by any means ruled that approach out.  It is just awfully attractive to me (and worth some money I don't really have) to make the connection as zipless as possible--and it seems from my reading that the UQ + US2TB offers this.  So I do want to educate myself as much as possible how this is done.  I started out thinking I would just go with a laptop hooked up to a NAS, but then looking at the all Naim approach with the controls via nServe (and actually using one at my dealers), it surely seemed like a good way to go.  So I will most definitely pick everyone's brain on how to pursue the approach you suggest as well.

Now: Let's suppose I go the UQ/US route.  Here is what I am thinking would have to happen (put your brains in elementary mode, please):

1.  The UQ and the power supply for the US 2TB each have their mains plugged into a wall socket. 

2.  My ISP provides me a combination gateway/modem/router with the cable plugged into the back of it.  There are four Ethernet ports coming out from this box (which for our purposes, I will call the "router".

3.  So I plug one CAT6 cable from port #1 on the router, through the ceiling, into the UQ.  I plug another CAT6 into port 2 on the router, wind it through the walls and ceiling and plug it into the US 2TB.

4.  I run a coaxial cable (converted into two RCA plugs on the output end) into the US 2TB's digital audio output socket, and the RCA plugs into the back of the UQ's analog input RCA female sockets.

Now, at this point, I am thinking I can either get the music from the US to the UQ directly by selecting the coax connection OR indirectly by discovering it on the network by selecting the Ethernet port into which the CAT 6 cable is plugged.  Am I on the right track here?

Next question: I have two controls--I suppose with the I-phone app nServe, I am in effect making an internet connection through the air to the router--to the unit I am trying to control.  Right so far?  But if so, since both the UQ AND the US are capable of being controlled by an nServ app--am I talking with the iPhone to the Unitiserve or to the Unitiqute?

And since both are capable of playing internet radio, should I access that through the UQ internet radio function or indirectly through the US?

Finally, I will also have a whole house sound amp/distributor set up in a closet to play multiple source into multiple zones, each with its own set of speakers.  Not high audio quality, but only for casual listening--since I cannot afford a UQ in each room with its own set of audio quality speakers.  But I would like to input the UQ into one of this units's source RCA input sets.  All of these are strictly analog.  But I do not see any analog outputs on the UQ other than the speaker posts and the Preamp output--and this is AFTER the volume and balance controls.  Sooooo, is there a way to do this?

Thanks again, in advance, for the valuable help you all provide to a rank novice.

Russ

Oh, Guido--when you refer to a "Naim streaming  box" would that include the UnitQute?

Mate try not to over complicate things - hard wire both Qute /US via Ethernet to router, use NServe to control US to manage rips/downloads etc and use NStream to control Qute to play music/radio, job done. 

Thanks, Prubast.  And I assure you I most certainly don't want complications.    That is one reason I am willing to pay extra for two units that shake hands so well.  Just trying to wrap my mind around how all the stuff hooks together. 

Hi Russ,

I do not think you can control the UQ by the n-Serve app, it controls the Unitiserve. The n-Stream will control the UQ. You can then use either app to play your music. if you use n-Serve you need to have the Uniitserve connected to the Unitiqute by s/pdif, this is not necessary if you use the n-Stream to play your music.

I have tried both methods and the latter is far better in my opinion.

I still use the n-Serve app for editing my music files which is very convenient.

Gerry

Thanks, Gerry,  I got it.  A couple of followups if you don't mind:

1.  How do you like the combination?  I have read many opinions and most of them seem to be favorable, some highly so.

2.  Were my other hookup assumptions correct as far as you can tell?

3.  Do you ever have to resort to a keyboard, mouse, and display or does Nserve always work for all your file editing?

4.  So do you connect your Nserv to your UQ through S/PDIF, and if so, does that consist of coax at the US end converted to 2 RCA plugs on the UQ end?  (told you I am technically challenged.)

5.  Do you keep the two units close together or do you have the US at a remote location?

Thanks for your assistance,

Russ

1. Actually I am using the Unitiserve in conjunction with an NDS, and I like the combination, the Unitiserve should work equally well with a UQ.

2. Yes apart from the connection from the Unitiserve to the UQ which would need to be a coaxial or optical cable directly into the s/pdif input of the UQ not the RCA input. You cannot directly connect to a digital output to an analogue input, the signal needs to go through DAC. The UQ has an onboard DAC.

3. I do not have a keyboard, mouse or monitor for control the I use the n-Stream exclusively.  

4. See 2 above.

5. I have the Unitiserve on the same rack as the NDS, I have the SSD version and the NAS i remote from my audio rack.

Cheers

Gerry

Russ / Gerry - I am confused why you feel you need to connect UServe via coaxial /optical cable? IMO Ethernet is optimum for sound quality / stability and i think I'm right in saying that this is the way Naim originally intended the US to be used.

This set up also means you dont have to have to have the US in close proximity to your system.

Oh and you save yourself the cost of an expensive new cable.......

Prubast: I have seen it said in other posts that coaxial is superior to optical--and I guess that is a different issue really from what you are saying--which is hook it up through the network.  I have also seen a couple of opinions that agree with you on that.  I think it pretty much proves the old saying about almost any field of study: "Opinions are like as-h-les: everybody has one."    When I was a kid, growing up on the bad side of San Antonio, I managed to get in a knife fight and nearly ended up with two--but that's a different story! 

So I am still confused--if you rely strictly on ethernet cables, would I then plug an ethernet cable--say Cat 6, into the back of each unit and run each cable to one of the four ports on the back of my ISP-provided modem/router combo?  And would they then be able to see and shake hands with each other without a computer involved?

Gerry: Thanks very much.  Yes, I did know that the Qute has an on-board DAC and that you have to go into one of its digital inputs.  I guess I looked at the manual and the digital input looked like a couple of RCA ports so I figured that you could do digital with RCA plugs.  But now that I look at it again, I see the Qute does have two coaxial ports, so I guess I would use one of those with your recommended method. 

Russ

> Oh, Guido--when you refer to a "Naim streaming  box" would that include the UnitQute?

Russ

Yes - the UQ is great little amp with a DAC 

In my view ... you could get a Mac Mini and connect it the UQ using a Wireworld Supernova 6 optical cable ... you don't need any Ethernet connections. The Mac Mini will connect to the Internet wirelessly (so you get all the data when ripping). You can rip use XLD on the Mac Mini for bit perfect rips that will load directly in to iTunes. You can use the Apple Remote app for free on your iPhone to control it. [I use a small plug-in called Bit Perfect to ensure iTunes is optimised] 

If the 500 GB disk in the Mac is not enough then plug in a Firewire drive with 2TB. 500 MB will let you store about 1000 CDs in ALAC leaving room for the OS. 

The SQ will be excellent and the ease of use as good as it gets. 

The downside is the Mac won't match your UQ if that's important as it white. 

I use a Mac Mini + Naim DAC in my main system. 

The Vortexbox can look like a US and will do everything you need to stream to the UQ ... I would put the VB, a small Switch and UQ on a rack ... then I'd use an Airport Express to feed the VB (so you get all the data when ripping). This how I use the UQ in my office. 

I chose these because I found them bullet proof in terms of ease of use and reliability. 

All the best, Guy 

My earlier posting was not clear, I use streaming rather than s/pdif to my NDS, I compared both connections and the streaming option was clearly superior.

Gerry

Thanks to all.  The finish on the Mini is not a factor--I have just read about folks having trouble with MAC--maybe not as much as with a P.C. (ugh), but still a computer about which I would have to worry about upgrading the OS, hooking up an interface with KB, mouse, and display.  I don't know--it might well not be as bad as I think.  I am definitely going to look at it and may post some elementary questions similar to these later on.  For now I am going to whine about how the Serve would operate.

Which brings me to the question--when it is time to back it up, do you need to hook up a p.c. or Mac between it and say, a honkin' big USB drive?  (If I don't want to mess with a network?)  What would be the minimalist backup procedure?

Russ

It is easy to upgrade the Mac .. just VNC app on your phone and a couple of clicks. Upgrading a Naim streamer requires Albert Einstein (and he was not a handsome fellow).

You can back up the Mac using Time Machine to make it completely automatic. 

If you use the optical connection between Mac and UQ it will be hassle free.

If you want to stream from your Mac that is easy .. you use Playback from Yazsoft. The UQ recognises it first time every time. 

Sorry can't comment on PCs as I don't use them other than at work and I just type on it ... I haven't a clue how it works these days. I used to know in the days of Windows NT Server as I used to show companies how easy it was to break in to them and completely take over every Microsoft device on the network. I have a different job now, as that one made me very unpopular with the Gatesian Empire.

I use my UQ with a Vortexbox ... which is just like a US in most respects - you can order it Naim ready so it just plugs in and works.

I can see no reason for me to buy a US as I can't see anything it does that can't done on a standard computer, but then again why do folk buy ND5 XS or NDX when they could buy a Naim DAC and enjoy better sound quality. 

Still - one downside - I can suggest these things, but I can't offer you support if for some reason they don't work for you .. very unlikely in my view

Whatever you choose good luck and hope you find a system you are delighted with. 

Guido:

I understand in general what you are saying, and I may in fact go that route after more research.  But because you are being so helpful (and trying to save me money), I feel I owe you an explanation for what is offputting about the approach (perhaps, I grant, it should not be) but because of my lack of interest in and enthusiasm for anthing computer related.  (I headed up a huge database support operation including CA/IDMS, ORACLE, Software-AG's ADABAS, IBM DB2, MS Sql Server, and Informix.  I, like you, I used the desktop solely as a tool.  Fortunately, we had a staff kiddies who took care of any problems and took great delight in doing things like transforming my cursor into a dinosaur.  I could have learned more about the P.C. world even though 90 percent of what I had to know was mainframe related.  But I didn't have to and didn't want to.  Now I am 67, retired, and if it were not for the internet, with great websites like this one and great people like you and the others who have helped me, I would never want to see another computer again!

So, enough of my diatribes.  Now I look at your email and I see the following:

VNC app on my phone

Hook up the Mac to a Time Machine

Playback from Yazsoft

Vortexbox

All easy stuff for you and a majority of the people on this site--but my hair is starting to hurt.  I

One thing that really IS intriguing though in what you and so many others keep pointing to---is the Naim Dac.  That really seems to be a wonder box.  My problem is that I want a lot up front that I can't afford.  So I am trying to choose between having streaming audio off the bat or not--and if so, whether I want to try to do it zipless with all Naim ($$$) boxes that simplify handshaking--or take the route that requires work on my part. 

In either case, you are definitely helping me.

Russ

Horses for courses, Russ.  Don't feel bad about not wanting to 'roll your own.'  We all find our comfortable spot, and it's not the same for everyone.  My 'all black box' system is very pleasing in many ways!  And I've learned a TON from those who chose different paths.

Well, Bart--don't give up on me.  Now I may be leaning toward saying "Screw it--i'm gonna get a SuperUniti".  If so, I can't afford the Serve and may have to really, really, really pick your brain about the Apple route.  One question--if I went a few extra bucks with an Air notebook hooked up to some extra storage, would that work as well as the Mini?  I ask that because I am so pissed off at the last 3 Dells I have bought and MS in general--that I am trying to pry my wife gradually over to Apple--which does seem a little more user friendly.  If I were using a cute little NB to front the storage, then I could pick it up off the shelf for trips and get her used to it.  She, unlike me, is a real power user of windows applications, but just as helpless when it comes to connectivity and what works with what.  In any case, I may be starting a new thread begging pitiously for help with an Apple solution.  I know you will be waiting with bated breath for that. 

I hope you all are not tiring to quickly from my incessant questions.  Am I correct in assuming that if I use my Iphone for nstream, I will need to have it set to connect via a wifi connection to my ISP?  Or will it be connecting to via 3g to the (in my case ATT) network via cellular?  Or does it matter?

Via wifi to your router.

Gerry