AirPlay - is Naim missing a trick?

I was thinking along the same lines when I decided to go for a Mac Mini + Naim DAC instead of a Naim streamer. I believe that streaming allows me and my family to enjoy my hobby more. I use the Mac Mini running iTunes and Bit Perfect into my Naim gear for my own listening pleasure. However when I am moving around and doing stuff or have family around or other social stuff I turn Bit perfect off and use Airplay via Airport Express to play music. Then everyone can enjoy music via Playlists, iTunes DJ etc in lost of other rooms.

This way I get my cake and eat it, that is audiophile and/or lifestyle, when I want it. 

If Naim produced some Airplay gear the I would definitely try to give it house room.

Tog, AirPlay has its use.. I have a fibre lead going from my AppleTv2 into the Toslink input on my NDX. I have a setting called AirPlay, and it comes up on the NDX display! And my Nstream now has an input button called Airplay. Works well from my iPad. I guess the only real benefit  of further integration would be integrating AirPlay remote functions into Nstream potentially..but I feel it's a marginal benefit, and I like to keep my relatively noisy AppleTV away from my audio equipment.

As far as audio quality AirPlay is woefully lacking, sounding anaemic, flat and indistinct compared to streamed WAV into the NDX, but for films and video it works a treat where I use stereo AAC.

Hi Simon -

Am running Spotify on my iPad, and using AirPlay to stream to an Apple Jitter Generator (i.e., Airport Express ), connected via Toslink to the DAC, and not to the NDX as you have.

My thought was that the DAC would be one less hop, and perhaps better sound quality.  Did you compare the two options, and find the NDX to sound better?  Or was it a tie, and the NDX simply provided better ease of use via nStream?

Thanks for your advice!

Hook

PS - Agreed on sound quality.  320kbps MP3's streamed via AirPlay is not top drawer sound, but I have found it perfectly adequate for exploring new music, and deciding which CD's to buy...or avoid!

Hi Hook, sonically there is a liitle difference plugging the AppleTV into the NDX vs DAC, however it's very minor and either way is fine with me. I plug my Sky STB Toslink out into my DAC directly. However I plug the AppleTV/AirPlay into the NDX so I can control it all from the Ipad (Apple Remote + Nstream), so yes it was convienience. 

My wish is that there are more digital inputs on the NDX2.

Simon

For many of the reasons outlined in this thread I'd say Airplay would be a good addition.

No, it's sound does leave something to be desired. But it's convenience at times when SQ is not the prime consideration makes it useful.

However, despite Naim seeming to indicate they were in talks with Apple some four years ago, I can't see it happening for a long while.

With the slew of new Uniti products and streamers can you honestly see Naim bringing out Airplay-enabled equipment to further confuse the line-up?

Where would it fit? On what products? And then they'd have to charge more I imagine.

Doesn't seem likely.

Hook, the first generation of Airport Express outputs a bit-perfect signal and the jitter levels ar almost on par with the Naim CD555..

Naim CD555 245 picoseconds peak of jitter and the and the Airport Express 258ps.

I dare to say the Airport Express gen 1 with a good DAC is good enough as source in almost any system.

But i know what you think now, "i can't be sounding good, it is cheap, gooood hi-fi must cost a fortune to be really good!"

Well that is the Naim-way, not necessary the right way i every situation.

So come on NAIM, implement Airplay and make alot of ppl happy.

And for gods sake, use the Airplay function to relay the iTunes library consisting of AIFF, use Remote app on iPad for nice experience.

Streaming directly from the iPad is indeed only good for exploring music and such..

Rather surprising considering the CD555 doesn't even have a S/PDIF output!

There are many reports on the web that Airport Express causes so much jitter that some DACS have trouble locking on.

As Hook says, adequate for exploring new music, but not for serious listening.

Richard

Yeah, many reports you say? Can you please link me to one? No?

I suggest you read information from credible sources, and if you have even read the slightest about the Airport Express you would know the reason behind some DAC's can drop the hook..

FYI i have tried mine with several different DAC's, none drops the lock, i guess every modern DAC will hold the lock without any difficulties.

The facts are straight, the gen 1 Airport Express is a really good source paired with a good dac, that is not a topic of discussion really.

As a good advice, do not take the common forum-truth for more than just that, a forum-truth.

Here you go, i  give you some good reading with from Stereophile and John Atkinson.

http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/505apple

http://www.stereophile.com/con...-player-measurements

Not wishing to intrude on you guys grieve, but just wondering WHY Naim have not implemented this. Are we to believe that they are just being bloody minded or could it be more to do with Apple and their licensing?

Its of no interest to me personally but if it were simple I think you would have had it implemented by now, I believe that all the streamers have the capability already.

There seems to be a view by many that Naim are responsible for all their woes, I would respectfully suggest that this may not be the case.

Carry on chaps,

Peter

P.S.  Anyone seen Tog lately?

Peter, it have been said on the forum that Apple have not yet decided if they are gonna license AirPlay to any standalone streamers, only "everything-in-one-box" like Uniti and Zeppelin etc..,

I do not know if this really is the case and to me it sounds abit of when almost any new Denon, Marantz reciever already have it, only difference is that they have amplifiers, i don't know if the Marantz preamps also got AirPlay?

I would like Naim to make a statement which way its leaning and why.

If i only _knew_ that for exampel the 172 xs or SU will get Airplay by a cost-free firmware sometime next year i would be callig my dealer tomorrow, i'm sure i ain't alone either..

So one can only hope..

I had a Marantz AV pre-processor for a couple of weeks: it had AirPlay.  Buggy implementation, though.  Lots of crashes.  But it was early days.  It did not ship with it; I had to download it. 

I am an Apple fan, and AirPlay got me into the streaming game; so "Thanks, Apple."  Personally, I don't need AirPlay any more, unless it is to play a video from the iPad wirelessly to the TV, which is more a novelty than anything, to me.  I have an Airport Express into the Naim DAC, and an Apple TV2 plugged into the TV, but I rarely use either one.  What am I missing?

Nick

I should have said my preferred streaming sources are still Squeezebox Touch, and Mac Mini; both do AIFF streaming and Spotify very well.   They are competing with each other, trading pros and cons.  Some days, one sounds a little better than the other, but it is usually too close to call, for me.

Nick

Nick, if you already have the MacMini near the Stereo there is no need for AirPlay, thats just as you know a neat function to relay your music from the fileserver to anywhere in the house where you choose to put a Airport Express?

If i where you i would hook the MacMini up directly to the DAC and run iTunes on the Mac, use the "Remote" App from Apple to control iTunes.

The fact that the Marantz reciever had AirPlay makes me think that Naim is to cheap to pay Apple for the license, can't say i'm surprised....

In my experience nothing from Apple is "cheap". I'm sure if it was cheap and easy Naim would do it. Having said that, us Apple avoiders are already subsidising iPod connections and licenses, Nstream, Nserve.....

Naim are not stupid and know their market and we all have our wishes. They do their best to support a range of platforms but seemed to have made everybody (on this forum at least) unhappy and wanting more. I guess they can't do everything at once so.... Android apps for me please! 

Strange comment Eargasm.

I do not pretend to be an Apple fan but I believe that it may be more to do with Apples reluctance/refusal to allow its use. After all, as Pev has said Naim are almost certainly already paying for the privilege to make their kit Apple friendly.

Apple have as locked down a system as I can imagine, I always have to smile a little when I read people extolling their virtues whilst slating others for doing anything similar.

Interesting to read others take on this all the same.

Regards

Peter

Whats strange about it?

Marantz paid and got a Pre-amp with AirPlay, that tells me it is possible, why don't Naim Do the same?

Ofcourse Naim have to pay Apple as it is for allowing the raw digital out of the iDevices, nothing strange about that. That logo on the box sell plenty of kits alone..

And if Naim is to be allowed using AirPlay ofc they have to pay for that license to,, the fact is, alot more Naim-kits would be sold thanks to AirPlay support, don't you think?

The rest of your post don't make sens to me, what are you saying?

Nothing wrong to me with apple wanting to control things in the space that they created - to me it's not 'locking down' but stopping freeloaders and incompetents messing it up. Naim themselves like to control the way their stuff is used too - no third party speaker cable, idiosyncratic (from everyone elses point of view) interconnects etc.

Naim have already implemented UPnP for their network DACs and I'd be surprised if the equivalent software for Airplay was significantly harder to implement, after all folk have had no problem making £25s of Raspberry Pi into an Airplay player, so I guess it must just be down to licencing and motivation. 

airplay.... I can do without it... not that something is wrong but...

I am using the logitech Sb touch, and a much much better solution than trying to cram all my songs onto my iphone and use airplay...

and hence, if you are using airplay, you may be missing a trick , or two.

Naim definitely isn't missing anything at all by not using airplay

Hi Eargasm

I find your claim that Naim are too cheap to pay Apple for a licence quite laughable to be honest; I suggested a possible alternative reason.

Nobody is suggesting that Apple should not be paid, Naim are presumably already doing that. But, Apple has to be willing to sell a licence for a given technology for use on a particular product at a price and with Terms and Condition that are acceptable to the purchaser. Usual business practice applies then.

Your assertion that Naim would sell a lot more kit with Airplay ability is arguable in my view, I would certainly be very unhappy to be charged even more for technology I would not use. I have already paid more than enough to Apple when I purchased the two units we already have, I don’t use any of their technology in either unit. If we assume for a moment that your assertion is correct then surely there must be some other compelling reason why Naim has not implemented it.  

What is your view if Naim somehow obtained a licence for Airplay, would you expect them to give it away free to all existing owners; or would you be prepared to purchase it? After all, nobody has so far paid anything towards the cost of such a licence and I am guessing that Apple would require payment for retrospectively installing it on units already sold.

Sorry part of my previous post does not make sense to you, not sure what I can say really as English is my only language.

Kind regards

Peter  

Implementing AirPlay would be a short-term gimmick. A propriatary transmission protocol will hopefully never become a consumer/industry standard. If Naim were to jump on this train, how many more would they have to jump on in the future?

If AirPlay (or any similar technology) became open source it would have a real chance of becoming a standard (replacing Bluetooth).

Why did you buy Naim stuff? One reason was most probably to have something of true quality and value that will also serve you well in 10 years from now. Will Apple still be around then? Will AirPlay still be a topic then? I haven't the faintest idea. But chances are that some other company will have taken the lead and people will be calling for 'Spacetunes' or whatever it will be.

When will we have Spacetunes then ...  I like the sound of that .. does anybody make any compatible systems. 

I would find Airplay useful, but it is not a reason for me to buy or not buy. If Naim introduced a proprietary Microsoft add-on then I would resent paying for it - in fact it would probably deter me. So I can understand folk not wanting to pay Apple for features they wouldn't use. 

Airplay is very good at what it does - so is APT-X over Bluetooth. However, my current view is that Naim should concentrate on making audio kit -- especially the new Reference DAC with full proof update capability from a USB stick 

I would definitely be in the market for one of those, providing they don’t include wireless, but then why would they?

So there we have it, two sold already. What are you waiting for Naim?

Airplay,

Is handy if you have kids/family and friends with portable Macs dropping round with new music to hear..

My Denon DNP-72OAE Network Audio Player takes care of that through the Naim DAC.

Stu.