A knife on a ferry

Posted by: Donuk on 26 September 2012

Recently we traveled on Brittany Ferries from Portsmouth to Santander.  Great trip - but had to fly back owing to industrial action.  Another story,

 

As foot passengers from Portsmouth, we had to have our baggage put through airport type security.  All our bags were scanned.  At the entry point to the security section was a large notice saying No Knives, and an "amnesty" box which presumably allowed me to dispose of any knives without repercussions.  Seeing that I and all my luggage were about to be scanned, I remembered that I had a nice Swiss Army knife in my pocket - always useful on holidays. 

 

I dashed back to the Brittany Ferries and asked a member of staff what constituted a knife.  He consulted with a senior colleague: the message was clear - pen knives were not allowed on the ferry.  He kindly offered to look after my knife for me until my return.  (The fact that I could not return via Portsmouth adds a further as yet unresolved twist to this sad tale.)

 

Is this not silly - if I had been a car passenger, I could presumably have had a whole arsenal in my boot?  If I wanted to skewer the captain, could I not have used a knife from the refectory? 

 

The implications of not being able to carry a knife for foot passengers who are going camping are grim.

 

Does anybody on this forum know the facts here - local lunacy or what??

 

Don, sunny downtown York (after much rain)

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by Sniper

Astonishing. In the Philippines (providing you have a license for it) you can turn up at an airport with a gun and they put it in a safe on the plane and you get it back at your destination. I am sure the same could be done with a knife. 

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by winkyincanada

This ridiculous "Oh my god the tearsts are out to get us!" security insanity malaise is spreading rapidly. We need to elect officials and politicians who understand that this sort of security theatre is unwanted, unnecessary and soaks up resources that could be put to much better use.

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by JRHardee

I was once in line with my wife to go through airport security when she realized she had her Swiss army knife in her carry-on bag. She dropped out of line and went into a gift shop which had a selection of dusty greeting cards in back. She stashed the knife among the birthday cards and retrieved it three weeks later when we came back from vacation.

 

I forgot about my knife a few years later, and when the security people found my knife on x-ray, they offered me an envelope in which DHL Couriers would ship my knife back to my house for a stiff 28 bucks. Nice that they had that service available--clever too.

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by JRHardee:

I was once in line with my wife to go through airport security when she realized she had her Swiss army knife in her carry-on bag. She dropped out of line and went into a gift shop which had a selection of dusty greeting cards in back. She stashed the knife among the birthday cards and retrieved it three weeks later when we came back from vacation.

 

That is SO clever. I'm remembering that!

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by JamieWednesday

Oh yes, I can just imagine the alarms raised when airport CCTV picks up someone furtively 'stashing' a suspicious article in a quiet part of a store on the airport premises...

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by mutterback

don't you know that terrorists can't drive?

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by Russ

It's even more ridiculous in the U.S.  Several times, my wife has been held back for some pretty serious checks at airport security while young men between 25 and 35 who much more closely resembled the 911 hijackers skated through security.  I like what one Israeli security expert said about our airport screening: "You do not have security--you have a joke."

 

When we worked for the U.S. government, my wife got stopped going in one day when scanners found a dull butter knife in her lunch kit.  "Ma'am, what is this knife for," the guard asked her.  No one fits the profile of a terrorist less than she.  She opened her big eyes wide open and said: "I use it to put cream cheese on my bagel."  They confiscated it.  Every day as I left for the next two weeks, I thanked these idiots for watching out for my safety, so my wife could not slip a dull butter knife between my ribs.

 

Meanwhile, we had knives a foot long and razor sharp used for office parties--slicing ham and the like that were grandfathered in before 9-11. 

 

I am all for security.  I am a nut about it.  But it has to have  rational basis in implementation.  Nothing is worse than government for making a great show and doing nothing constructive. 

Posted on: 26 September 2012 by MangoMonkey

That's what you get when you vote in folks who want to keep the minimum wage at $5, which is what the security folks at the airports get paid.

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Salmon Dave

I had my Swiss army knife confiscated at a German airport a few years ago - but the security guy took my details and personally posted it back to my UK address.

Now I put it in the suitcase or the car glove compartment.

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by adca

@Salmon: I wish we had lived such a service some ten years ago at Vancouver Int'l Airport. BTW we were in transit from another domestic town to Europe ...

extremely reassuring

 

 

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Salmon Dave

Actually I was travelling back from a Greek island to the UK about a week after 9/11. The queues through the makeshift security were endless - clearly no-one had got used to it and a lot of nail-scissors got dumped.

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Russ

Shivoham: With all due respect, according to the webpage for Homeland Security the pay, not counting benefits varies between $13.00 and $27.00 an hour.  Not bad for a cross section of folks, many of whom are fine people, but many of whom would struggle to get the carts off the parking lot at Wal Mart.  But you are correct: We should raise the minimum wage to at least a hundred and enjoy the result as they are doing in Greece and Spain.

 

Besides, I had thought we voted in the folks who want to RAISE the minimum wage.  They are in office as we speak. 

 

Regards,

 

Russ

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Exiled Highlander

Russ,

Not bad for a cross section of folks, many of whom are fine people, but many of whom would struggle to get the carts off the parking lot at Wal Mart.  

An interesting view of your fellow countrymen who are simply earning a wage to keep their families fed and watered while trying to help protect the security of your nation.....

 

As for this:

I like what one Israeli security expert said about our airport screening: "You do not have security--you have a joke."

Who was this un-named expert and in what context did he make the remark?  Have you ever flow on El Al or been through Israeli screening?  I can guarantee that if you don't like the "pretty serious" checks your wife has gone through I'm sure you wouldn't like those?

 

On one hand you are arguing for greater security (more intrusive screening?) yet on the other hand you complain about searches - maybe you just want arab looking gentlemen searched?

 

Regards

 

Jim

 

 

 

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Russ
Jim,
 
With respect, I do not blame my fellow countrymen for doing the work as they are told to do it by their superiors--just so long as no one expects me to take what their superiors have designed seriously.   Oh, sometimes they, like many other workers who deal with the public, become somewhat officioius and pushy.  But that is not my beef.  And don't get me wrong--far from being anti security, I am gung ho FOR it.  Whenever I am patted down or scanned--or whatever, I turn to the staff and say "Thank you for your service."  No, what bothers me is the degree to which the U.S. government (I have done some international travel but not enough to speak to the practice in other countries) does things to create the IMPRESSION that they are on top of the game. 
 
My children are Jewish and therefore subject to the right of return to Israel.  Thus I cannot tell you how much I admire El Al and virtually everything the Israeli government does to keep travelers safe.  I would submit to it gladly.  As to who the official was, it was several years ago and all I remember was that he was a high official who was in this country to consult on our own situation and appeared on television. 
 
Do I know what is needed to protect people in this country?  No.  Ideally, I should be able to trust my government to do that.  But when all the current administration does is calculated to dismiss our closest allies--Israel in the Middle East and Britain in Europe--e.g., sending back the bust of Winston Churchill, I find very little to trust--except for their recapitulating the stupidity of Europe and the United States from 1923 to 1939.  We are more interested in "reaching out" and appeasement of those who wish to kill us than we are in taking the firm steps necessary to minimize the probability that people who turn blooms into deserts will  be able successfully to attack school buses--yes, our policies are a joke.
 
The following will serve as only one example: On the anniversary, Sir, of 9-11, Libyans were able to stage a planned, armed attack on a U.S. embassy, to bugger and drag one of our ambassadors through the streets until he died.  Within 24 hours, the U.S. Government KNEW this was a planned attack by Al Quaeda.  But the president of the United States chose to characterize the event as a spontaneous demonstration by persons in the street offended by a video made by some idiot in California--months before.  Why would he do such a thing?  Because to admit otherwise would be to admit what he let happen on his watch--and to contradict his IMAGE as the great hero who killed Osama Bin Laden.
 
I am for security, Sir, but not for posing and electioneering.
 
Oh, I would also ask you this, Sir: Of all the acts of terrorism committed in the last 10 years, what percentage would you estimate were committed by Arab "gentlemen"?  I will not suggest that you have your head in the sand, because, while I value your right to your opinion, I would suggest that in someone sworn by my Constitution to protect me and my family, that it is hopelessly naive.  If I am attacked repeatedly by tigers, I will not look upon deer entering my property with the same degree of vigilance that I reserve for----tigers.
 
Best regards,
 
Russ
 
Originally Posted by Exiled Highlander:

Russ,

Not bad for a cross section of folks, many of whom are fine people, but many of whom would struggle to get the carts off the parking lot at Wal Mart.  

An interesting view of your fellow countrymen who are simply earning a wage to keep their families fed and watered while trying to help protect the security of your nation.....

 

As for this:

I like what one Israeli security expert said about our airport screening: "You do not have security--you have a joke."

Who was this un-named expert and in what context did he make the remark?  Have you ever flow on El Al or been through Israeli screening?  I can guarantee that if you don't like the "pretty serious" checks your wife has gone through I'm sure you wouldn't like those?

 

On one hand you are arguing for greater security (more intrusive screening?) yet on the other hand you complain about searches - maybe you just want arab looking gentlemen searched?

 

Regards

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by MangoMonkey
Originally Posted by Russ:

Shivoham: With all due respect, according to the webpage for Homeland Security the pay, not counting benefits varies between $13.00 and $27.00 an hour.

Russ


ah...

my web search yields a pay of more like $7.xx for these folks..

Having said that paying the same people more won't bring any better results.

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Exiled Highlander
Russ, Our views differ. We will find no common ground. Regards Jim
Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Russ

Understood, Jim and that really is OK.  I subscribe to the somewhat dated notion that people can differ politically, philosophically, and in matters of religion and still remain friends.  In my view, it is only when people resort to violence because of their differences that the abdicate all claim to friendship.  Clearly you and I do not fit that category.  You may well be much younger than I (I am nearly seventy) and if so, it is more your world to inherit than mine.  If your life expectancy does happen to be much greater than mine--then I would only invite you, say in 20 or 30 years, to remember our legitimate difference of opinion and evaluate whether I was right or wrong, back in 2012.  And Hell, for all I know, I could end up being wrong.  It has happened before--oh, maybe twice. 

 

I wish you well,

 

Russ

 

 

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Russ

Shiv: http://tsasalary.com/1/1/salar...port-Security-Salary is where I plucked my figures.  Who knows whether they are telling the truth though, under my own forumla.   But you are absolutely correct that paying people more to do the same job wrong will not help at all.  Just look at U.S. education--govenment expenditures for the past 20 years have been rising at a steady 45 degree angle, whereas performance of U.S. students has been straight lined.  Throwing money at situations may make us all (OK, let's say some of us) feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it don't do nothing for improving no one's grammer!

 

Russ

Posted on: 27 September 2012 by MangoMonkey
Ditto for healthcare. Where I think the problem lies is not in making health Insurance affordable, but making healthcare affordable in the first place. Even 3rd world countries do a better job of it, IMHO.
Posted on: 27 September 2012 by Russ

I think I butchered that link--try http://tsasalary.com/1/1/salar...port-Security-Salary  It somehow works better without the dots! 

 

I cannot attest to health care in any country except this one--although I did get ill in France once and a physician's assistant came to my hotel, which I thought was a nice touch we have gotten away from.  I do not know whether the solution lies in care or in insurance, although I suspect you are correct.  What I am almost certain of, however, is that allowing the government to run it will be horribly counter productive.  Elected officials are 100 percent committed to re-election--whereas the bureaucracy is 100 percent committed to making more than their counterparts in the private sector--without that minor little old inconvenience of being fired for incompetence.

 

Cheers,

 

Russ

Posted on: 30 September 2012 by Bruce Woodhouse

We have done that trip many times, but with a car. We take bikes and various items, at least one of which is a multi-tool with a blade. We have never been searched, the car gets the most cursory examination.

 

Why so keen on foot passengers? It has always struck us that Ferry security is rudimentary...perhaps that is because they are an unlikely target. I have alwaus believed airport security to be at least partly to convince the passengers as much as anything. It is one of (many) reasons we stopped flying a while back.

 

Just got back from France, via another Ferry operator due to Brittany Ferries action cancelling our planned Caen crossing. We did wonder what Brittany Ferries would have done if we were in Santander this weekend. It would be a serious drive back to Calais for a crossing home!

 

 

Bruce

Posted on: 30 September 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:

 It has always struck us that Ferry security is rudimentary...perhaps that is because they are an unlikely target. 

 

Bruce

Everything is an unlikely target.

Posted on: 30 September 2012 by Bruce Woodhouse

Good point well made!

 

More likely to die eating some of the food served in the MyFerryLink 'restaurant' on board actually.

 

Dreadful company it appears.

Posted on: 30 September 2012 by beginner
Originally Posted by Sniper:

Astonishing. In the Philippines (providing you have a license for it) you can turn up at an airport with a gun and they put it in a safe on the plane and you get it back at your destination. I am sure the same could be done with a knife. 

In the Philippines i have walk through security with opened bottles of water in both domestic and international airports and nobody has said a word to me

Posted on: 01 October 2012 by Sniper
Originally Posted by beginner:
Originally Posted by Sniper:

Astonishing. In the Philippines (providing you have a license for it) you can turn up at an airport with a gun and they put it in a safe on the plane and you get it back at your destination. I am sure the same could be done with a knife. 

In the Philippines i have walk through security with opened bottles of water in both domestic and international airports and nobody has said a word to me

Well, that is because no one here, and I mean NO ONE, knows their job.