NDX->NDAC/555PS vs NDS/555PS(2x Burndy)

Cheers Allen, other than some garden work, and relatives round for Sunday lunch, I hope to put some more listening hours in today...  and then hopefully share my findings.

Simon

Relatives round for Sunday lunch seems a great reason to escape for a listening session!

Interested to see your report.

Richard

Looking forward to hearing your views Simon. I only spent few hours with both NDS and DAC and knew the NDS did more for me after this short time. I'll look out for further updates later.

watch out at what you are eating and drinking for lunch...that might affect the sound of your system, or at least your perception of it! 

Hello Simon ... I, too, am very keen to know your views. I've only heard the NDS in short bursts and have come away with the feeling - yes this does sound better than my MM/Naim DAC/555PS. I haven't indulged in a home trial as I'm not considering buying the NDS, but I am interested in your findings.

I know you use ATC speakers so are more likely to hear differences in the level of detail than I would using my speakers, which provide a presentation I love at the expense of some resolution. So I realise your conclusion could differ from what mine are so far. 

I know we both think highly of the Naim DAC. 

Look forward to reading your review, which I rate far higher than any such review from a magazine. 

All the best, Guy 

What speakers are you using, Guido?

Naim Allae in my main system and Eclipse TD 510s in my office.  

So I felt it as was time to hear the NDS in my home and on my system. A conversation with my dealer confirmed that a) I could borrow an NDS for a few days and b) in case I became smitten we agreed a deal which meant the NDS was affordable on suitable trade in of redundant components.

My appetite was further whetted when over a cup of tea I was discussing with aforementioned dealer that the NDS I had previously heard connected to an early DR version of the 555PS which had subsequently proved faulty – and possibly therefore the cause of the previous ‘so-so’ performance of that NDS.

So NDS back home – NDAC and NDX safely put away – transit screws removed from NDS and attached the two burndys between it and my 555PS. I attached the Ethernet patch lead and plugged my DNM interconnect into the DIN out. All seemed fine, although still warm from being on at the dealers I left it for a couple of hours to ‘settle’ in.

Later that evening I played some tunes.

What hit me straightaway was the difference in balance and the smoothness of the high end. The change in balance appeared to be in the area of the lower mid that was slightly more fuller than I was used to on the NDAC .. interesting.

I put some regular favourite tracks on to appreciate the new insights the NDS was going to expose. This is where it got interesting. The NDS had a smoothness that allowed you to listen into recordings. With acoustic folk like the The Unthanks – with ‘Gan to the Kyle’ and ‘Queen of Hearts’ the vocal came through clear and decisive. Moving onto pop with vocals and 10cc ‘I’m not in Love’ the multi tracked background vocals worked really well. Being an ex-chorister and I really enjoy soprano choir music – and it still raisers the hair on the back of my neck   – and listening to the Canterbury Cathedral choir singing ‘Hear My Prayer’ worked beautifully with the lovely cathedral acoustic.

Now to go up tempo a little bit – I put some of my rock and roll favourites – Charlie Blackwell ‘The Girl of my best Friend’; here the vocals worked but there was a lack of energy and the exaggerated 4 track stereo wasn’t as pronounced as I am used to hearing. The beat wasn’t quite there.

Interested I started to listen to more music with a key rhythm and more varied dynamics. – Queen, Pink Floyd, The Presidents, Echobelly, Fleetwood Mac, Dire Straits, Al Greene… All these tracks played smoothly and cleanly but they were not quite there – they didn’t have the emotion and drive I am used to from the NDAC. My foot didn’t tap in the same way – in away the sound reminded me of the Linn network players. I tried to characterise what was happening. The sound was smooth and clean, but it was polite and lacked the energy and pace I am used to from Naim. They dynamics were slightly sat up on and the groove was not as evident.

For an experiment I played a very processed and compressed track that normally sounds poor, Pete Molinari’s ‘Street Car Named Desire’ from the album Train Bound for Glory. The NDS fared well – and overall better than the NDAC/555PS with this track; probably because of the more expanded lower mid.

I then tried some very rhythmic folk – and used Brian Finnegan ‘Belfast’. The tabor was lovely and tuneful but whistle was too smooth (and being a whistle player I l know they are not *that* smooth) – and there was less rhythmic drive to the fingering intonation – a key part of the whistle player’s technique than I am used to.

Now I was getting even more curious – I decided to put the NDX/NDAC/555PS back in. Let it warm up – and compare. Yes the vocals were not quite as full bodied or clean – but the rhythm, drive and timing was back to the way I like it; the stereo field widened. The polite smoothness of the NDS seemed to be replaced to my ears with a more vibrant and enjoyable up front presentation. This is what I like. I need to feel the emotion, life and rhythm in my music.

So – to summarise. It’s difficult. The NDS clearly is a supremely refined and articulate player. It excels at what its good at - at providing a clean refined sound.  However to my ears this has come at a cost of taking away some of the emotion, drive  and enjoyment from the music when compared to the NDX->NDAC/555PS.  I think for me for the time being I am not ready for my pipe and slippers – I still enjoy the drive and life in my music and so overall I am not sure the NDS is quite right for me at this time.  However bring me the refined clean sound with the vitality, dynamics and life and I would take it.

Just get a CD555-job done

Simon, thanks for the honest and detailed review/opinion.

I dropped NDAC from my NDX/NDAC/XPS-combo for similiar reasons and I'd love to skip NDS without a home demo. But I know I won't be at ease before having one myself..

You went back to an NDX/XPS and dropped the nDAC? Interesting, was there any particular thing which made you do that?

Simon, I know a sonic signature of nDAC/555PS very well and this is a highly resolving and very transparent hi-fi player with a weighty bass. But it's bright. It's a typical hi-fi digital player. It does not take you to the world of real  sounds. Instead, it creates a colorful world of its own -- and many people like it. Just like many people will pick up CDX2 over CDS3. Nothing wrong with this and I do like the way those players rock against "true-sounding" flagships.

Some like it hot, you know! 

Nope, I added NDX to my existing NDAC/XPS setup and eventually deemed NDAC unnecessary in the mix. NDX/XPS just rock more on their own.

"Some like it hot, you know!"

Well, Simon...Naim would say: Add another 555PS!  And

Presto...more juice!

California Jim

Hi Simon,

I presume you're a 'Signals' customer? You may be aware that another 'Signals' customer (and friend of mine) has just made this change?

The NDS and one 555PS (non-DR) versus NDX/nDAC/XPS was a no-brainer for me with a strong preference for the NDS, when I heard the installation. No contest as far as I'm concerned, but your report makes interesting reading - thanks.

John.

Simon - excellent and interesting write up. I intend to compare my current source with a KDS/1 and wonder if I'll find similar trade-off to the ones you describe. I'm torn between a pre-amp upgrade and sort out a long lasting streaming solution. I prefer the Naim DAC/555PS to any Naim CDP I've heard, but still feel it is not quite the end game for me. I wish Naim would bring out the reference DAC perhaps with switchable filters so we could enjoy the current DAC style presentation or NDS style presentation depending on our mood 

Hi John, yes I am a Signals customer, and yes perhaps it was your case I heard about your where it worked out very obviously. But I did sense Alastair was not automatically assuming I would prefer the NDS sound as he knows my tastes rather well by now.  John, of course our systems,tastes  aND speakers are probably very different. But as Guy says I am an accuracy freak.. It's why I go ATC speakers, and could never get on  with Harbeths or transmission line speakers. I love the  dynamics, timing  and tonal characteristics in music, I guess being an amateur musician those are the queues I respond to warts and all, and that's what I look for in my audio equipment rather than a refined 'hifi' type sound, but I can understand the appeal in that. It true the NDAC takes a lot of setting up to avoid it sound sharp or bright.. RFI and earthing being the key contributors, but I have got it right or am lucky as I have got the NDAC sounding just right for me. 

For me the biggest differenve between the optimised NDAC and NDS other than the subjective terms of life, emotion etc were

A) ndac portrayed better timing, rythmic  intonations and dynamics, 

B) NDS had a slightly greater mid bass weight with an expanded lower mid response. (nice for vocals)

C) the NDS had a  slightly more refined and slightly more prominent top end 

D) NDAC seems to provide a better stereo image.

But the lack of the NDAC styled dynamics ultimately left the sound not as rewarding as my existing setup which I truly adore.... But I can imagine  the NDS fitting very well in many systems and ears..just not mine and James seems to be discovering the same for himself.

As always.. The lesson here is a home demo of any high end equipment is essential, as at this level we all appreciate different things in our replay systems.

Simon

Hi Guy..thanks. I suspect it's not a case of switching filters, given the subtlety it's probably more down to the analogue line amps and I2V converters, but it would be interesting to learn whether there are any differences in the digital filtering between NDAC and NDS (or NDX for that matter).

I am sure if I had never heard the optimised NDX->NDAC/555PS before I heard the NDS I would be happy, but once you pick up on something and you enjoy it you can't ignore it, as I dicovered when I was moving to streaming from the CDS3 a couple of years ago.

Guy as I write I can't see what speakers you have, but it might be if they are not as ruthlessly revealing and neutral and are more 'musicaly refined' than the ATCs , then the NDS may be very rewarding for you... And let us know how you get on with the Linn.

Were you tempted to try NDS into the nDAC for a giggle, would be interesting to see how the characteristics of the sound changed.

Hi Tricky .. Yes only because i thought somebody would ask me on the forum 

But I have only one power supply and the NDS requires both it's power outs.. At least for  the NDS I borrowed. Using the NDAC without the 555PSleaves it way short of thle performance we are listening to here... So no I didn't do it but would have been  tempted..  

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to post your findings Simon. I very much appreciated the opportunity to read your review and enjoyed it.

Like you say, a lot of it has to do with where we came from and what our expectations are. I have found the NDS to be very easy to foot tap along to with. The change in presentation between DAC/555 and NDS/555 is not the same but nevertheless somewhat akin to listening to a CDS3 after being used to how a CDX2/XPS2 does things. If this is how it transpires in my little universe it is not surprising that I would feel more at home with the NDS. And no less surprising that others wouldn’t. I find that the NDS can do brawn, balls and phlegm on demand. But I have been listening to it for several weeks and like anything else it’s a case of (a) being accustomed and (b) being happy with the presentation and detail. I thought the DAC/555 was trying too hard at times and unravelling at the edges. It is clear to me how this can also be seen as a more visceral and impactful performance and there is no one universally "right" answer. You like what you like.

Whenever a post like this comes along I get optimistic.  There is so much choice out there now. Very nearly something for everyone. This is a good thing. Past that it’s down to individual preferences and those who can be happy and clear with their choices  AND keep their hands on their money are fortunate indeed.