The price of old LPs
Posted by: mista h on 22 October 2012
Just got back from Croydon,bumped into the owner of Memory Lane a s/h music shop.
He just told me he is doing more specialist LPs now as the likes of Amazon have taken a lot of the run of the mill sales away.
Told me he has got a few punters interested in a 1st pressing/mint bla,bla,bla King Crimson LP at a bargain £2000. Am i out of touch with prices or what????
Mista H
Just over 10 years back I had a guy fly over from Korea to negotiate the purchase of this:
A very rare set indeed, and rarer still for being pancake pressings - as far as most collectors were aware there were no SXL pancakes made, all of the old presses being used for the London CS issues.
Somehow he'd heard about my Decca SXL collection through a dealer and another collector I used to do swaps with. So he rang and asked to come and visit. I told him that the set in question was not for sale, but he said he wanted to come anyway. We did a deal in the end and the proceeds got me through a tough couple of months.
What's a pancake pressing?
This is a cool site for people who like LPs.
link removed
Whoops - realized that it has a sales section, so links presumably not allowed. Google "Sound Fountain" and look at the Remington Site page.
Winky,
a Decca "pancake" is an LP pressed using the mono presses. The label area had a groove around it's outer circumference and the outer edge of the LP was flat (as a pancake). When Decca introduced stereo LPs with the SXL series they used new presses that added a raised "groove-guard" lip. The groove in the label also moved about 1.5cms inside the label. However, the older mono presses weren't retired straight away, and were used for pressing the London CS equivalents of the SXLs. With the early London CS issues you will find a mixture of pancake and non-pancake pressings depending on what was available at the time.
Note that London CS issues and Decca SXL issues used the same vinyl and same stampers. Sometimes a London CS would accidentally find its way into an SXL sleeve - I have just such an example of Ansermet's Stravinsky Petrushka on SXL2011, where the actual vinyl is labelled as London CS 6009. I have a proper copy of SXL2011 from exactly the same period and both share the same stamper marks despite the CS being a pancake pressing.
Winky wrote:
I don't know what the TT shelf would be equivalent to. [?]
Subsoil?
Certainly the surface of an old LP can sound like ...!
ATB from George
A mate of mine is really into the value of records and he told me The Court Of The Crimson King was originally released for a short time with the 'pink' island label rather than the later palm tree one.
It's the 'pink' label on this particular album that makes the big bucks.
I did check mine and it's NOT a pink one,not for sale whatever so it matters not to me!
TheRecord Collector makes this distinction.
Mine is the pink label withe "i".
It is now valued at £450 in record collector in mint condition. £2000 someone is dreaming!!
More importantly than it's 'value' it's a wonderful album of music.
More importantly than it's 'value' it's a wonderful album of music.
Agreed.
First remember it being played on the radio by John Peel.
Perhaps my most informative years (late 60's, early 70's).
It is now valued at £450 in record collector in mint condition. £2000 someone is dreaming!!
If you look at the "popsike" website and search for Court of king crimson pink, you will see a copy sold last month on ebay for £1665.
Ebay can be mad. I have seen a copy of Rolling Stones Black & Blue 1st pressing sell for over £200 and that is not a particularly rare record.
I agree about it being a great album for sure.
Nice try. 
But poor analogy. The consumables (chain, cassette, tyres, brake-pads, cables, bearings and bar-tape) on a bike are like the stylus and drive belt on a turntable. The bike itself is like the actual turntable.
The correct analogy with record wear is if the roads wore out by riding on them. Which they don't.
Winky, it doesn't sound like you've experienced UK roads lately. I promise they do wear out.
Good point!
ATB from George
On topic, the £20-£30 being charged for pretty much any vinyl is enough for me.
On sound quality degradation, I've got my parents old records which have been sat laid flat on top of each other for 20+ years that mostly sound between good and great, and my mate's collection which has been regularly played until recently, most which sound pretty bad. But I can't say whether that's through playing with a worn out stylus or just through wear and tear.
Ebay can be mad. I have seen a copy of Rolling Stones Black & Blue 1st pressing sell for over £200 and that is not a particularly rare record.
I agree about it being a great album for sure.
Being a great record doesn't matter as much as rarity ... record collecting is a diverse hobby.
I do find it sad that some folks ae denied hearing some of great music though by prohibitive prices
Equally, ebay can provide bargains. I'm one of those strange collectors who eschews overpriced tatty first pressings in favour of slightly later ones in mint condition, and have picked up some superb stuff recently on ebay - much better than at any record fair, where dealers will over-price most sought-after LPs of whatever edition. However, even the £2 bins in the fairs are worth trawling through now as it's only the prog and collectables which are fetching silly money - the bins often have some great stuff too.
I have a Nick Drake 5LL on Pink if anyone wants to pay me the Record Collector £800 for it!
By the way, is it a coincidence that 'Lake' and 'Crimson' are synonymous in painting?
........The most valuable record in my collection is probably worth more than 3x the £2000 the dealer is asking for the KC album. It's by Dr Isaah Ross called The Flying Eagle and was the 1st album to be issued by Mike Vernon on the Blue Horizon label. Less than 99 were pressed and were sold by mail order via his Blues magazine. I also have the magazine it was advertised in. A very nice package. It is the holy grail to Blue Horizon collectors and very rarely comes up for sale. I picked it up in 1992 in a car boot sale for 60p, a very nice investment. It was worth £400 even back then.....
Steve
This is such an awesome story. You are very lucky, and I expect deservedly so, as you must have known what it was you saw that day for 60p. Twelve bob no less!! Probably didn't cost more than that when it was pressed.
Your story interests me as there was a Radio 4 documentary on record collecting a few weeks back, narrated by Cery Matthews. Very specifically on the Blue Horizon label, including an interview with Mike Vernon. He remains a huge music fan and collector. There are people trawling the second hand market every day the world over looking to turn up a copy of The Flying Eagle. He has one too.
Cheers
Click
Hi Click,
It's a shame I missed that programme, probably too late to hear it on iPlayer.
I've just checked the copy of Blues Monthly from December 1965 that the record was advertised in. You may be surprised to hear that the actual cost to buy the record by mail order was 37/6d. Records were relatively expensive in those days especially with limited presses of less than 100. Apparently the main reason for the limited press was to avoid Purchase Tax.
Yes I did know what I had in my hands that day at the boot sale and I can still feel the sense of excitement finding what was even then the Holy Grail of Blue Horizon LP's. I had been collecting them for many years beforehand.
I chatted to Mike Vernon about this record, and about other things, at a Bishopstock Blues Festival in Exeter about 10 years ago. He called me a lucky 'xxxxer' for finding a copy.
If I have time I'll take some photos of the package. There is very little on the internet.
ATB
Steve
Hi Click,
It's a shame I missed that programme, probably too late to hear it on iPlayer.
I've just checked the copy of Blues Monthly from December 1965 that the record was advertised in. You may be surprised to hear that the actual cost to buy the record by mail order was 37/6d. Records were relatively expensive in those days especially with limited presses of less than 100. Apparently the main reason for the limited press was to avoid Purchase Tax.
Yes I did know what I had in my hands that day at the boot sale and I can still feel the sense of excitement finding what was even then the Holy Grail of Blue Horizon LP's. I had been collecting them for many years beforehand.
I chatted to Mike Vernon about this record, and about other things, at a Bishopstock Blues Festival in Exeter about 10 years ago. He called me a lucky 'xxxxer' for finding a copy.
If I have time I'll take some photos of the package. There is very little on the internet.
ATB
Steve
Hi Steve.
This is a fantastic story. What sort of condition was the album in and is the music any good. Did you get the back story from the seller as to why such a rare record had ended up at a car boot sale? Or did you just hand the money over and walked away with a big smile on your face. It would be great if you could post some pictures of this rare as rocking horse sh...t album please.
Regards Graham.
Well Steve, I remain astonished by the story and am surprised the record was 37 shillings and sixpence. Expensive indeed at the time.
I suppose, on reflection since it was second-hand when you bought it, that twelve bob was about right!!!
Hi Click,
It's a shame I missed that programme, probably too late to hear it on iPlayer.
I've just checked the copy of Blues Monthly from December 1965 that the record was advertised in. You may be surprised to hear that the actual cost to buy the record by mail order was 37/6d. Records were relatively expensive in those days especially with limited presses of less than 100. Apparently the main reason for the limited press was to avoid Purchase Tax.
Yes I did know what I had in my hands that day at the boot sale and I can still feel the sense of excitement finding what was even then the Holy Grail of Blue Horizon LP's. I had been collecting them for many years beforehand.
I chatted to Mike Vernon about this record, and about other things, at a Bishopstock Blues Festival in Exeter about 10 years ago. He called me a lucky 'xxxxer' for finding a copy.
If I have time I'll take some photos of the package. There is very little on the internet.
ATB
Steve
Hi Steve.
This is a fantastic story. What sort of condition was the album in and is the music any good. Did you get the back story from the seller as to why such a rare record had ended up at a car boot sale? Or did you just hand the money over and walked away with a big smile on your face. It would be great if you could post some pictures of this rare as rocking horse sh...t album please.
Regards Graham.
Hi Graham,
The record is visually Ex but the recording is not brilliant and there is some surface noise. TBH it's not a record I play that often but once in a while I'll give it a play.
I have to be honest and say I didn't give anything away when I bought the record. I payed and walked as you say with a big smile on my face. I didn't want my stupid big mouth to give the game away and lose the chance of buying the record! It was very surprising it was there given that it was late morning in St Albans and usually the record dealers have trawled the best records early in the on. I was only there because I arrived too early to pick my kids up from something going on at the school where the boot sale was being held.
There were two albums released sold through Blues Monthly and I also have BH2 "Let Me Tell You About The Blues" a V/A album. I bought this one for £300 in an auction to complete my collection of Blue Horizon LPs.
I'll take some pics soon.
ATB
Steve
Steve,
Nice story.
When ever i find something like that its great until i slide the vinyl out for a look.
Only to find it so badly marked it should be in a bin.
Whats the most you have ever spent on a album?
Stu.
Stu,
This record isn't that bad. The sleeve and typed insert are in excellent condition and this record is considered a piece of history.
The most I've paid for a record is the £300 I payed for the other BH record I mentioned above. I bought it at a record fair auction in Wembley around '96. It was the going rate for this record then but it's worth far more now.
Steve
Graham/Stu,
As promised here are the photos of the LP 'The Flying Eagle' including the typed insert and Mike Vernon's magazine Blues Monthly that it was advertised in.
and this is the other album
What an interesting thread.
Somebody told me recently that a lot of the vintage chateau bottled wine that is sold for prices in excess of £150 per bottle is never actually drunk, or bought with any intention of drinking it; it's bought to be part of a cellar of other rare and expensive wines.
Many other markets behave like this - including the rare LP market. The playing quality, per se, is of no real interest over and above the official grading.
But this is no reason to be deterred from continuing with, or starting a vinyl collection. If you're a classical collector the wealth of s/h classical LP's (sold on by eager adopters of CD) means that there are absolute gems around for under £20. Even if one has a taste for the early SXL's and similar albums from EMI, to which Richard Dane refers, there are still lots around <£50.
It's somewhat similar with modern Jazz (though it;s not as easy to find mint s/h as it is with Classical). If you're a jazz fan and you visit New York city it's always worth visiting Fred Cohen's Jazz Record Centre on W23rd Street - it's an Aladdin's cave (albeit on the 8th floor) of s/h jazz vinyl at sensible prices.
I've been collecting vinyl for over 40 years - the first album I bought was the second Free album and. if i remember correctly, it set me back 30/- which was an awful lot of money in 1969.
I worked in the record business when CD was first launched - I liked the convenience for the office system but never hear one play music like a good vinyl album on my LP12.
Graham/Stu,
As promised here are the photos of the LP 'The Flying Eagle' including the typed insert and Mike Vernon's magazine Blues Monthly that it was advertised in.
and this is the other album
Thank you Steve, I just love this stuff. I have a poster on my wall from the Mesey Beat January 14th -18th 1962
advertising the Beatles Top Poll! With a picture of the boys in leather jacket and their names underneath
John Lennon, George Harrison, Paul McArtrey (spelt wrong), Pete Best. Will try and post a picture.
Regards Graham
What an interesting thread.
Somebody told me recently that a lot of the vintage chateau bottled wine that is sold for prices in excess of £150 per bottle is never actually drunk, or bought with any intention of drinking it; it's bought to be part of a cellar of other rare and expensive wines.
Many other markets behave like this - including the rare LP market. The playing quality, per se, is of no real interest over and above the official grading.
But this is no reason to be deterred from continuing with, or starting a vinyl collection. If you're a classical collector the wealth of s/h classical LP's (sold on by eager adopters of CD) means that there are absolute gems around for under £20. Even if one has a taste for the early SXL's and similar albums from EMI, to which Richard Dane refers, there are still lots around <£50.
It's somewhat similar with modern Jazz (though it;s not as easy to find mint s/h as it is with Classical). If you're a jazz fan and you visit New York city it's always worth visiting Fred Cohen's Jazz Record Centre on W23rd Street - it's an Aladdin's cave (albeit on the 8th floor) of s/h jazz vinyl at sensible prices.
I've been collecting vinyl for over 40 years - the first album I bought was the second Free album and. if i remember correctly, it set me back 30/- which was an awful lot of money in 1969.
I worked in the record business when CD was first launched - I liked the convenience for the office system but never hear one play music like a good vinyl album on my LP12.
Bluedog,
You are quite right. Although I have a number of valuable records the only one I paid a lot of money for was the 'Let Me Tell You About The Blues' and this was just to complete my collection of Blue Horizon LPs. There are many valuable records in this collection but I don't think I paid more than £30 for any of the others. I have always bought records for one reason alone and that is to listen to them. There is some great music in the BH catalogue and it started for me when I saw Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac and Chicken Shack. These only form a small part of my record collection which I have been collecting for 50 years.
Today I bought a nice 1st press copy of Santana Abraxas for £3.60 which will give me as much pleasure as a record costing 100x more and is better SQ than the MOFI reissue costing 10x as much.
ATB
Steve