An ADSM, a MAN301 and an outsider - A quick audition (ADS vs KDS to follow)
Posted by: m0omo0 on 13 November 2012
Good afternoon everyone,
As I alluded to in another post, I've had the opportunity to attend a short demo audition yesterday. A friend of mine is looking to replace its Logitech Transporter and wanted to lend an ear to a Linn Akurate DS and a Weiss MAN301, and was kind enough to let me join him. It will be followed by a second listening sessions at another dealer tomorrow, where hopefully the Akurate DS and the Klimax DS can be compared.
The protagonists
The venue: I'll post a picture later so you can have an clear idea, but let's say the place was a heavily treated room about 6 x 6 m. Treatment included typical spiked acoustic foam on the walls and the ceiling, and carpet on the floor.
The gear: I didn't bother asking for specifics (I was not really concerned after all), but here is what I could spot. The ADS was in fact an Akurate DSM (network streamer with preamp stage, if I got it right; but another preamp was involved, read on). The other source was a Weiss MAN301 (a ripper, as well as player or streamer, I don't know; with a DAC "similar" to the DAC202; double the price of the Linn). Later an external DAC was (too) briefly introduced: an MSB Technology Analog DAC (and twice the price of the Weiss...). The amplification chain was from Burmester, probably a 088 preamp and a 911 power amp. And the speakers were... (roll the drums...) the beautiful Sonus Faber Amati Futura (a more "bling" look than the Anniversario; visually I prefer Edouard's; never heard them though). No clue about the different cables involved. A mains conditioner was used, but I don't know the make or the model. Files were on NAS, and I spotted a small QNAP and a small Synology in a corner.
The music: My friend's choice comprised Adele (Hi-Res), Hadouk Trio, Lady Gaga, Crooked Still and Rebecca Pidgeon (Hi-Res remaster, 24/88.2 I think).
The circumstances: The system was completely unknown to me but I was quite familiar with most of the music. The shop owner was friendly (I had been here before years ago, so I knew that), but was talking a bit too much and had a strange way to conduct a demo (see later) ! And the whole thing was done in a bit of a hurry as my friend had to leave after 1 hour and a half. Less than perfect conditions for any kind of meaningful report.
The audition
The friendly dealer offered us a seat in a smaller room to chat a bit with my friend to try and understand his needs and desires, the music he liked and how he liked to listen to it. This room looked like a home cinema demo room, adjacent to the main listening room, and I spotted Totem, Focal Chorus and Linn Isobarik speakers along the way. And loads of records (but no TT in sight). Some nice chat and interesting explanations and opinions later, we went into the main room for the contest.
Playing my friend's chosen music, the dealer was in control with its iPad. We started with the ADSM, than introduced the MAN301 to compare. The gain was not even between the two sources so it took a while in order to have an A/B switch that was not too unbalanced. Very strangely, the dealer would have the unnerving habit to skip through a particular track 5 seconds at a time, than change the source. Very distressing, and not at all agreable.
As I've told before, I'm really not apt to give a thorough decription in English of what I heard. Despite the conditions of the demo, I was able to guess the Linn from the Weiss "blindly" (well, I had spotted the position on the preamp LED display, so... but I could tell sonically nonetheless). From the start, the ADSM had a kind of gloomy presentation, with an upfront lower midrange that would blur some pieces. The MAN301 was clearer, softer, and subjectively a bit thinner. We both preferred the Weiss (but given the conditions of the demo, it's totally meaningless). Both left me cold, and I really disliked the ADSM in such -- inhospitable -- circumstances.
A MSB Analog DAC was briefly introduced, looking like one of those heater you put on the table to keep the meal warm, but so fast that I couldn't notice if it was with the ADSM or the MAN301. But it was subjectively better for a few nanoseconds or so...
As you can most probably guess, this was a very confusing demo. But the dealer insisted that we listened to another system. And this time, fortunately, he played one track almost in its entirety. Immediately I found this system better, the music was easy, engaging, fun. I liked it very much and -- at last! -- it made my foot tap.
This other system had a pair of Focal Electra 1028 Be, powered by a Burmester amp (my guess is a 956), with a Logitech Transporter as the digital source. And at the heart of the system was a Berkeley Acoustic Design Alpha DAC. And after all we had endured before, this one was a complete relief, and not only because we were able to listen to a track in full. A lot closer to what I'm used to and like. The dealer qualified it as "the most musical DAC" [sic]. Makes me wonder what are the others for, if they're not "musical"... Anyway, worth an audition this BADA DAC, if you ask me. And apparently made by joyous and funny chaps who like to deliver updates through music files, among other crazy things.
Here you go, hope you enjoyed the small trip. Next stop: ADS vs KDS tomorrow.
ATB
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
Very enjoyable small trip. More please.
I can concur with your findings on the Berkeley Acoustic Design Alpha DAC. I listened recently to a system using the BADA DAC fed by iTunes & BitPerfect (on a Mac Mini - there may have been a Wavelength USB device in there too, not sure) ; the rest of system was Spectral (amps and cables) with ASW Chelys speakers (twin 180mm Scanspeak Illuminator midbass and the Mundorf Air Motion Transfomer tweeter). This was the first computer-based system - apart from the ones based on the UnitiServe or HDX ,of course 
- that I could have lived with. Very very engaging, beautifully detailed and entirely credible. Loads of Naim like PRaT too.
It's not surprising that the BADA DAC sounds wonderful, given that it's designed by three alumni of Pacific Microsonics, developers of HDCD encoding, among other accomplishments in recording and D/A & A/D conversion.
Jan
@Jan-Erik
Thank you for the kind words Jan-Erik. Honestly, I cannot be certain that the enjoyment was mainly due to the BADA DAC, but I guessed so as the amplification was similar between the 2 systems, and neither of the 2 pairs of speakers were particularly slow (from what I had heard of Focals and SFs before). So I guessed it had to be the DAC, which indeed concurs with your findings. But I always find these multi-faceted demos so confusing...
I enjoy reading your interesting posts too, BTW .
As a small off-topic post-scriptum, may I ask you if you had the opportunity to compare the digital output of the HDX with the one of your... -- ahem -- augmented (walking on thin ice here...) UnitiServe ?
@DHT
May I ask you where you got your BADA from ? Maybe it's from the same place I went to.
I've read on the forum that some people had been able to compare the BADA with the Naim DAC, and I think most preferred the nDAC, but they didn't really describe their findings. Why did you find the BADA disapointing ? Was it in a Naim system ? Were you able to compare it to the Naim DAC ? And what DAC did you choose in the end ?
(Just to give some reference here, The BADA is roughly a little less than twice the price of the Naim DAC.)
The crime scene, as promised:
On the (terrible) picture above you can see, in the large central rack:
- Top left, the plate warmer is the MSB Technology Analog DAC;
- Top right, the large doorstop is the Burmester (911?) amp;
- Second level left, the Linn Akurate DSM;
- Second level right, the Burmester (088?) preamp;
- First level left, a Linn Majik DSM we didn't use;
- First level right, with the bright blue LED on the left, the Weiss MAN301;
- Base, I don't know.
In front you can see, on the left an unknown amp we didn't use, and on the right the mains conditioner.
On top of the far left rack you may be able to spot an Olive. No clue about the rest of the equipment.
Oh, and of course, on both sides, the Ladies Amati Futura (I know, you couldn't guess from the picture... 
)
And you see what I mean by a "heavily treated" room !
On the (terrible) picture above you can see, in the large central rack:
- Top left, the plate warmer is the MSB Technology Analog DAC;
- Top right, the large doorstop is the Burmester (911?) amp;
- Second level left, the Linn Akurate DSM;
- Second level right, the Burmester (088?) preamp;
- First level left, a Linn Majik DSM we didn't use;
- First level right, with the bright blue LED on the left, the Weiss MAN301;
- Base, I don't know.
In front you can see, on the left an unknown amp we didn't use, and on the right the mains conditioner.
On top of the far left rack you may be able to spot an Olive. No clue about the rest of the equipment.
Oh, and of course, on both sides, the Ladies Amati Futura (I know, you couldn't guess from the picture... )
And you see what I mean by a "heavily treated" room !
Not heard of burmester before, must o some research.
Nice room though
Built like a Porsche, priced like a Porsche, sounds like a... errr... 
The crime scene, as promised:
Well m0omo0, this looks absolutely amazing.
Can you describe all the kit for the less informed of us?
Ah, yes AMA, thank you for the reminder (I'm loosely focused, these demos are not for me, I'm just curious). Is the /1 upgrade the one with the new Dynamik PSU, or is there other components involved ?
The MSB DAC is called "The Analog DAC". But really, I barely heard it a few seconds.
Do you have any opinion on the BADA ?
Maurice, KDS/0 can come with Dynamik PS and ti still far behind the KDS/1 (which is automatically equipped with Dynamik PS).
KDS/1 has a new clock board and it features completely redesigned output stage with much bigger output Lundahl transformers.
The sound is nothing like KDS/0 with Dynamik PS. It's much closer to .... Naim sound 
I checked the web-site and Analogue DAC seems to be a new MSB entry level DAC.
MSB is mostly known for their monstrous Signature DAC IV which is spoken as one of the best DAC on the market (well it should be at 25 K$).
Never heard BADA but I own nDAC/555PS which I normally run from USB or Logitech Transporter with great result.
Built like a Porsche, priced like a Porsche, sounds like a... errr...
Burmester looks ugly but it is a high-class amp.
I did a carefull audition and I should acknowledge its quality.
I see DHT, it's not the same place, other end of the country.
It always puzzles me how different people can have so opposite an opinion on these kind of things. For me the MAN301 was clear, transparent and soft, but somewhat lifeless, when the BADA was maybe a bit less transparent but engaging and fun. No right or wrong of course. Fortunately there's enough choice for everyone.
I was told the MAN301 had a DAC close to the 202, but "more musical" (I have no opinion, never heard a DAC202). At least it looks like it is voiced differently, so worth a careful audition if you like the DAC202.
ATB
Maurice
PS: My computer suddenly needs a little TLC unfortunately, so there's going to be a little delay in reporting on the second demo. (Where there was -- and this time I paid careful attention -- a Klimax DS... /1 !)
I see DHT, it's not the same place, other end of the country.
It always puzzles me how different people can have so opposite an opinion on these kind of things. For me the MAN301 was clear, transparent and soft, but somewhat lifeless, when the BADA was maybe a bit less transparent but engaging and fun. No right or wrong of course. Fortunately there's enough choice for everyone.
I was told the MAN301 had a DAC close to the 202, but "more musical" (I have no opinion, never heard a DAC202). At least it looks like it is voiced differently, so worth a careful audition if you like the DAC202.
ATB
Maurice
PS: My computer suddenly needs a little TLC unfortunately, so there's going to be a little delay in reporting on the second demo. (Where there was -- and this time I paid careful attention -- a Klimax DS... /1 !)
I have only heard the DAC202, not the MAN301 ... my conclusion would match yours Maurice.
People listen in different ways, I'm not sure I go for a highly detailed presentation, my inclination is almost towards does this want to make me join in and sing along. I was very impressed with the BADA. However my Naim DAC/555PS also gives me that feeling.
I didn't have the BADA in my system so cannot easily say which I'd prefer between it and the Naim - probably neither - given I have a Naim system and am happy then I'm unlikely to change. The only problem I have with Naim is the streaming side - pre-DAC: no SQ issues, but it doesn't always work as smoothly as I would want; I've commented many times on this.
If the BADA is not CE then I would not have bought it no matter how good it sounds, but not everybody has my cautious approach.
I know that Guy, I always read you with interest and pleasure. A bit anal about this Windows thing eh ? I can understand: the UnitiServe virus story really made me think... I agree it looks like its still a bit rough around the edges. After all, Linn started years before, and as part of the software being Open Source, they got quite a crowd of testers for free (even if it was quite a bumpy road in the beginning too).