Are UnitiServe NAS backups NDX Compatible?

I can confirm that this is indeed the case, but I'm not quite sure HOW it happened

I thought that there is/are .xml file(s) containing the data, but didn't see them in the backup directory (store).  Phil, did my uServe re-create the metadata database when I executed the "move music?"  Or was it hiding?

Hmm, the conversion of a full album in FLAC codec at compression level 5 with a size of 357MB to WAV takes about 30 seconds. The resulting WAV file have 584MB. Even if the processor in the streamer is only a quater as good as the one in my laptop, sonic effects of the concersion could be limited to a period of two minutes if the decompession was done in one stroke and the resulting PCM stream buffered.

... just playing mind games ... I like to check things for plausibility ...

Thanks for those posts, Phil, genuinely helpful and informative. Again, I'm only intending to implement this in case of uServe HDD failure and repair, but it's nice to know in detail the best ways of being prepared.

I'd like to defend the uServe for a moment - I've quickly found it not only to be an hassle free, time-saving device for people, like me, who mostly don't have the time or inclination to get into the ins-and-outs of these kinds of technicalities - in a way this thread has proved just how fraught this area is, with nothing really standardized as yet, and I for one welcome wholeheartedly companies like Naim and Meridian, to name a couple, giving a plug in and play approach here.

However, I'd also point out that, in the little time I've had it, I've been *very* pleasantly surprised at just how good the uServe is as a source/transport, whichever you wish to call it. Feeding a decent DAC, it is, quite simply, superb. I have what is probably quite a different setup to many, in that it is routed through the (it has to be said superlative) DAC input of a Meridian 808.2i CDP and then into Meridian DSP 5K speakers. In many respects, I was shocked to find that it actually sounds more musical used this way than s pinning a CD in the 8082.i. Granted, it's still passing through the excellent DAC and de-jittering, etc. of that unit, but still, it's no mean feat and shows the uServe is evidently low-jitter, low-noise, etc. It is also often quieter in use than the 808.2i, which sometimes has to read CDs quite fast for error correction, whereas the uServe just has a whisper quiet HDD and no fans, like some HDD servers I could mention.

I'm enormously impressed, and when you add to that the ripping, serving and other functionality, I think it starts to look like very good value in high-end audio. I have a feeling that long-term, if anything, it might be the NDX which could prove extraneous in this setup...

As I understand it, if the Flac is decompressed before streaming to the player, there should be no disadvantage to the format. I don't find it particularly hard to believe what, at first glance, might seem like a tiny extra processor load in the player could ultimately prove detrimental to SQ - in a high resolution system, tiny differences can become subjectively large.

James, I went the other way 'round.  I started with the uServe as a player into my Naim DAC.  I definitely was enormously impressed!  uServe to Naim DAC / XPS-2 was my 'starter' system last year.  Then I got a bug to see if I could better it, and traded the DAC and XPS-2 towards the NDS and 555PS (non-DR).  So that relegated my Serve to the role of a true server.  My system sounds very noticeably better now, as I'd hope for considering the extra investment.  Even in this role I am happy to own the uServe and happy to simply feed it cd's and with nothing whatsoever else on my part end up with streamable music with metadata that works perfectly with bith nServe and nStream in my library.  I'm happy so that's all that matters to me.  And along the way I've learned how to do this stuff the other way (nas and its upnp server), just because I was curious.  Yes, that other way is not terribly challenging either.

I just finished setting up the NDX, fed by the uServe, through the 808.2i into the DSP5Ks - very interesting. Instantly cleaner and clearer, still nice and smooth - very nice. However, whether it's more musical...? Needs time to settle in, burn in, and warm up before I can make any serious judgements. In this particular setup where one doesn't use the DAC, it's a slightly different scenario to most, and whether the NDX adds £3000 of improvement remains to be seen 

Remember though that the decompression is not done in one hit. The audio data is streamed in chunks over the duration of the playback and is unpacked as playback takes place.

This is why we suggest that - if possible - the UPnP server should be set to transcode to WAV and stream that so that the player device doesn't have to ramp up its own processing to do the decoding. Our own UPnP server can be set to any of the following streaming formats:

1) "Native" - files are passed in their native format and the player unpacks them.

2) "CD 44/16" - files are transcoded to 44.1kHz / 16bit WAV and are streamed in that format.

3) "WAV" - files are transcoded to WAV but in the source file sample rate and bit depth.

I know that it sounds quite cocky and I know that it's expensive but I really do think that we've got a very stable, flexible and comprehensive UPnP server in our UnitiServe, HDX and NS0x products.

I've been beating my head against a number of brick walls this last few days trying to sort out an issue that a customer has been having with AIFF files (not ripped on our kit) and a UPnP server on a third party NAS (not one of our servers) and I have to say I've seen nothing to shake my belief that UPnP servers on NASs or OSX are pretty poor once you step away from anything "mainstream" in respect of file formats - Asset UPnP is the only other UPnP server that I would feel confident recommending.

Cheers

Phil

Hi Claus,

Setting the "Stream Format" setting in the "UPnP Compatibility" menu to "Decode to WAV" on the web interface of your UnitiServe / HDX should do what I think you're wanting to do ... it will force our UPnP server to decode the track data on the server before sending it as an uncompressed WAV file for playback.

Cheers

Phil

I changed the UPNP setting in the browser. The choices were native, CD and WAV. Interestingly, the manual states that the native setting provides the "highest potential audio quality".

Keith

Hi Keith,

If you stick with the maxim that the minimum processing done to a file is the best option then that is the case - it *POTENTIALLY* offers the best results and produces the least loading on the server however we know from real world experience that uncompressing compressed files away from the player sounds best.

Cheers

Phil

Ha! At last some sort of tortuous explanation about this. Still confusing to me...

If you want less load on the server, and potentially better quality when simultaneously used as a local player, set to 'Native'. If you want less load on the remote streamer(s), and potentially better quality from the streamer(s), set to 'WAV'. The latter is the recommended setting for use with all Naim streamers.

Something like this ?

(OT: Could have been you, Phil ! How A TVR Turned Me Into The Biggest Gearhead Of All Time )

Unfortunately the test seems to be influenced by prejudice. The difference in processing power of different flac compression levels refers to the ENcoding. DEcoding has nearly the same processing requirement.

Hi Phil,

Any thoughts on the above or are you not at liberty to share your view on this?

Many thanks

tp

Sorry TP - hadn't seen that posting from you - one of the dangers of trying to handle queries on the forums and why we like people to contact us directly rather than assuming we'll just see everything up on here.

I have to say that I'd be quite wary of AIFF as a format after the experiences I've had with it - it is generally really badly supported by most of the NAS based UPnP servers out there (I would assume AssetUPnP is better as it generally is one of the best of the software UPnP servers out there).

I think that if I wasn't using WAVs then I'd be using FLACs and getting my UPnP server to transcode before streaming...

Phil 

Are you saying the setting is wrong, or just stating disagreement with Naim?

Claus

Claus,

I may disagree with Naim's view on WAVs sounding superiour to FLACs or other lossless formats, but this was not the point of my former post.

I was actually picking up Phil's notion of superior SQ due to less processing taking place in the streamer.

You stated that FLAC level 0 was sounding better than FLAC level 5. As I understood you conducted this test in order to test Phil's theory. Your result was that Phil was probably right, and that less processing work on behalf of the streamer would result in better SQ.

I say, you may have been influenced in your judgement by the assumtion that the playback of FLAC level 0 would require less processing power than that of FLAC level 5.

As a matter of fact the processing requirements for the decoding of different FLAC compression levels do not differ, or only by a very small margin.

Your conclusion as to reason of the result of your listening test is therefore not plausible.

So, to summarise the native verses WAV decoding debate, if your using the UnitiServe as a server, decode to WAV (because it's better to get the server to do the work than the streamer). If your using it as a source (via a digital interconnect), maybe not. Mine is now set to WAV decode.

Top tip. Thanks Phil :-)

Also, it's nice to hear that those of us who have gone for the Naim server option are getting a good technical solution as well as a great user experience. 

Keith

As one can read just one posting above this very one, you have no own listening exerience with regard to the topic discussed. Therefore I suggest that you refrain from remarks on other people's founded reasoning on topics which I am merely debating and not negating.