The War On Britain's Road - Drivers V Cyclists - BBC 1 9PM

Touch wood none so far. What a terrible statement to have to make, because I believe at some point it will happen. It's been so so close, and yes some with idiots and some where I've just not seen them.

Ive had my car kicked, fisted, slapped and wing mirrors bent amid all this deliberately. Yet I've also had this by bikes and cyclists who weave in and out of traffic while I'm stood still. Yet as the programme clearly showed, some cyclists believe this to be acceptable

Well, you should at least slow down or get off the road completely if you are so poor at this whole driving thing.

Winky

Maybe you should bog back and add the second sentence then comment. when was the last time you drove in London on a regular basis

Why do you not see them until the last second? Do the lights on your car not work? Is your windshield dirty? Are you driving too fast for the conditions? You know that you can regularly expect to come across them, but you STILL won't slow down? There is a good chance you will kill them if you hit them, but you still don't change your behaviour? Wow.

I'm not justifying cyclist without lights (they obviously should have them - foolish not to. Idiots!) I see plenty of them around here, but I can't say I've ever had to swerve to miss one at the "last second".

By the way, when I cycle, I am lit like a Xmas tree. It seems a prudent policy given apparently unobservant and impatient drivers like yourself.

Why would ANYONE drive in London?

The two sentences here may be related and do much explain Foxman50's attitude.

I put it to the forum the Foxman50's driving is such that he often has "close calls" with cyclists to the point where he feels that he will inevitably kill one some day. I contend that this completely explains the second sentence; the claim that cyclists often deliberately damage his car.  If someone drove so aggressively and dangerously that they really thought killing me was inevitable, I'd be inclined to give up my passive stance and damage their precious car, too.

Foxman50, I increasingly suspect you're trolling. Please get off the road if that isn't the case and you really believe the stuff you're writing.

To answer your questions, even though you refuse to answer mine. I don't see them when it is pitch black, they are dressed in black and with no lights. In my common sense brain I'm expecting cyclists on the road to make themselves visible as I do. 

After fifty miles of lanes lights do become very dirty at this time of year and cuts visibility down considerably.

Again windshields become dirty, but luckily we have an invention called wipers.

Hopefully not driving too fast, but this is very subjective I would say.

"still you won't slow down" hmm sorry have you seen this, i was not aware you were following me.

i think that is obvious hence the reason I take responsibility for myself and drive accordingly

Im glad you are well lite.

Finally please do not tell me how I Drive. 

All this bitching does not help finding a solution, maybe your energies could be better spent doing this than blaming drivers for everything

I'm afraid this is getting too personnel for me now. I thought its was a real conversation about the causes and hopefully the solutions.

my last comment to you Winky on this subject. Please sample the reality of either driving, cycling or walking the streets of London for some considerable time, then please come back and comment.

I really wish I could sit and say all the issues I have with cyclists and bikers are of my own doing, I really do. alas it as not the case.

Have a good weekend and stay safe by which means of travel you decide to take

Blaming drivers for everything is a pretty valid approach because it is drivers who are responsible for the overwhelming majority of issues. But I have said from the start, that it is pointless to do so (we agree on this) because motorists will never take responsibility. Your comments on this thread are strong anecdotal evidence of the truth of this.

Foxman, in my entire life in London, whether driving or as a passenger, I have never experienced this happen to a vehicle I have been in. None of my friends or colleagues complain of this either.

In your case it seems to be happening a lot. Perhaps the common thread is you?

Just a thought.

Marky

clearly you must be correct of course, maybe you should watch the program again.

Winky

seeing as I have neither killed, maimed or even come into contact with any cyclist, other than being hit by them, I would deduce I therefore am not driving too fast. But feel free to again accuse me.

"blaming drivers for everything is a pretty valid approach" this is laughable beyond comprehension. I may as well say the same regarding cyclists. But this too would be a ridiculous statement. 

Can I ask the pair of you. What would you like too see happen as a way to reduce the incidents. Please try to be balanced, by which I mean changes for all road users not just motorists. You can't blame the fire for burning you if you put your hand in.

This is a serious question. Please don't respond with insults

Crikey! This thread was bad enough when it was merely getting personal, now personnel are involved it's stepped up a level, how long before a human factors business partner arrives?

Lol it's this blasted iPad it keeps correcting what I write. Mind you I think some would prefer that 

nStream great, typing pants 

Ladies and gentlemen please step away from your keyboards and take a deep breath before any hardware gets hurt. It is bound to  get uglier and physical.

KR

Tony

Literally this thread has reached the end of the road.

I'll quote from my first post and leave it there.

Dear Big H

No it has not!

ATB from George

Dear George,

I thought you were boycotting the BBC. I suppose you have managed to watch the documentary by now to give you the right to express an opinion.

KR

Tony

Dear Tony,

I did not realise that it is a question of having a right to post here or not! As far as I understand it, this is a Forum with a membership that may be withdrawn - so not quite an open Forum - but once one has a membership one is free to post on any topic that is not specifically banned etc . [See Forum Rules].

I have not watched the programme, but I am a cyclist, a pedestrian, and occasionally still drive a motor vehicle.

I have been knocked off my cycle twice in two years [and also once in 1977]. Each time the car driver was completely at fault, and each was driving blind, as it were, as each claimed not to have seen me.

I think that gives my posts on this thread at least as much value as having watched the programme, which I have not.

ATB from George

I agree with you George, and with your experiences it makes you more than qualified to comment. I have for some time worn a hi vis yellow chest band while cycling, however this does not help for visibility from oncoming traffic.

although I've never pulled out in front of a cyclist, or had someone do it to me, Ive said previously that we can be very hard to see sometimes.

maybe when these new thermal or infra red cameras on cars are the norm it will help reduce this type of incident.

 I must admit if I'd been knocked of twice not sure I'd get back on for a third.

Dear Foreman,

I got back on the cycle after six weeks,the very next day after they allowed me to weight bear on my leg. At the time I could cycle, but not walk without sticks!

I suppose that I am content that one day I'll be dead and if it happens on the cycle that gives me so much pleasure then so be it!

I also wear a hi-viz tunic, and have four lights on the cycle - day and night - two at each end. One each on continuous, so as to comply with the law and one pair on flash as this is far more visible.

Belt and braces, but that is also okay by me.

When a car fails to stop soon enough at a road junction, and pulls right into my line, then I stop, get off and walk behind the car smiling blissfully at the inattentive driver. This does far more good than shouting in my experience. 

ATB from George

PS: See the Carlton thread for a picture of me riding by the sea in Norfolk last summer. With my hi viz top!

I totally agree, by doing this you make the driver think and realise what they have done, or that's how it would make feel.

By shouting abuse and slapping or kicking the vehicle does not make the driver feel remorse at all. It just antagonises them and makes them feel you deserved it.

Standard 65 mile ride on the bike today. Had this discussion still in mind. Was not with a group as usual so thought I would depart my focus on the stats on deaths and injuries on our road and simply do some observation / counting as I went along:

• 17 instances of overtaking me when immediately in front was oncoming traffic, a bend or the brow of a hill. I would say half of these reckless, nearly half were very dangerous and 3 were unbelievably dangerous. Drivers impatient because they wanted to pass the instant they approached me on a single-carriageway. Not willing to wait a few seconds to see around the bend etc so take a chance. Luckily no accident but in the event of one I think it would be they or the other car driver who would be in trouble as I could hopefully stop quickly and/or swerve into the hedge.
• Counted 20 people driving with mobiles by halfway round. It was a Sunday so I suppose they had urgent Sunday lunch arrangements to make etc. Got bored and didn't bother continuing to count. Worst case was a woman doing about 50mph on her mobile on a country lane which was narrow enough to have passing points on it.
• Lots of cars speeding. Lots and lots. Wholesale ignoring of the limits despite speeding being responsible for approx 25% of road deaths.
• Police? Didn't see a single police car anywhere.

I was in a biking mecca. I didn't see any cyclist run a red light, cycling on pavements or wearing dark clothing.

Maybe some of the apologists should look again at what other car drivers are doing. I see exactly these types of behaviour whenever I am driving too so am very surprised that anyone at all can be missing it if I am honest.

Conclusion - car drivers, as a group (not all individuals), are a dangerous liability. They are irresponsible and flout the law. It cannot be denied if you have your eyes open.

Back to the stats...most of the people car drivers kill or injure are motorists including themselves. Drivers focusing on blaming cyclists for road problems is a) misguided and b) about as smart as turkeys voting for Xmas.

On a positive note there were plenty of good drivers around too.

Marky mark,
    Just read your post with interest . Have to say I have not followed this thread as not a cyclist.

In terms of your comment on cars overtaking you in unsafe areas, I would comment that although not a cyclist I am a motor cyclist, of some considerable age.

In my youth I took advanced motor cycle training and also police road craft training. What the police teach is that the motorcyclist (or cyclist) should ride at half way or two thirds the way out from the kerb. This ensures that you create a positive image and this makes other traffic recognise you as a legitimate traffic object and as a consequence they have to overtake with a correct, defined passing manoeuvre rather than just pushing past.

You might already ride this way, but though it worth a mention

Paul

Thanks Paul. It is sound advice. I do already ride like that and am fortunate enough to be able to keep pace with the traffic (non-speeding that is) in towns and cities at least. I think being able to do that gives the rider more confidence to do as you say. People new to cycling and / or a bit slower can be a lot more timid and to be fair to them I understand why. Less of an issue on a CBR 600 I'd imagine!

In the cases I mention above there were car drivers entirely on the wrong side of the road right as they came into a bend / brow of hill / oncoming traffic. Sheer madness! They may want to die rather than wait a few seconds for a better view but what about the family coming the other way?

It sounds like you are an experienced motor-cyclist. What is your view on the quality of driving you see out there?