Keep losing unitiserve - any advice?

Hi Robbo,

Completely out of the blue as I don't own a UnitiServe.

Let's start from the UnitiServe device and move up to the streamer. From the manual, I don't see that the UnitiServe can go to sleep, so this should not be the problem. (I thought an HDX could, but can't find that anymore...)

From a network point of view, the next step is how the UnitiServe gets its IP address. By default it uses an automatically generated IP address through the DHCP protocol, usually provided by your WiFi router. If that's what you're using, I would recommend that you ensure that your router always automatically gives the same IP addresses to your UnitiServe and to your NDS. DHCP IP addresses are "leased" and these leases only last for a while, then the devices get another IP address, which can be a bit confusing for them when they have to talk to each other. (Note that this might not be the cause of your troubles, but I think this is good practice anyway.)

You need to configure this on your router by "reserving" two specific addresses for these two devices. You identify your devices by their "MAC address", which is a series of pairs of letters or numbers seperated by colons. On your UnitiServe, according to the manual, there is a label on the lower right corner of the back panel that says "MAC address"; I don't see from the manual where that is on the NDS, but if you don't find it you can look for it in the front panel menu if you go to Setup->Network Settings: it's the last parameter called "MAC".

Take note of each device MAC address, then on your router "reserve" (it's the usual term) a specific IP address for each MAC address. If your private network is 192.168.1.0 for instance, say you can give the Naims 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101. All your other devices would normally receive an address starting from 192.168.1.1.

Once done, shutdown and power off your NDS properly, then your UnitiServe. Then boot your UnitiServe, and when it's up and you can see it with n-Serve or the DTC or web interface, power up your NDS. Normally you can see on your router interface if the devices are connected and what IP address they got.

This should help streamline the communication between the two devices, but if it doesn't it's also possible you might have a completely different problem... Are the two devices connected through Ethernet or WiFi ?

HTH anyway

Maurice

Just looking at your profile, I'm a bit confused now as I see you also have a Uniti. So is the UnitiServe new ? Is this problem happening only with the NDS ? And do you use a UnitiServe SSD with a NAS or a hard disk version ?

Robbo, owning an us for some weeks i had exactly the same problem some time ago. It was annoying. this problem was totally resolved by reserving an ip adress for the mac adress of the us on the router, us never dropped again. m0omo0 described it perfectly above. 

Robbo, how are you connecting your unitiserve to the NDS, and your wifi to the unitiserve. 

The reason I ask is that upnp uses a discovery technique using multicast frames. This tells the NDS where the upnp server is and it is working and the same for the iPad discovering the NDS. Some Internet routers with inbuilt switches don't handle multicast well or even disable multicast. A standalone switch usually fixes this.

When your NDS ca not find your upnp server can your iPad find the NDS and can your iPad see your upnp server?

If the answer is yes, then I can't see it's an IP address issue.

Simon, am I right in thinking that, if the server has a fixed IP address, the clients (be them Media Renderer or Control Point) have some sort of caching that make them try to reconnect the last server they were connected to first ? This might be a per application/device feature, I don't know.

I don't have any experience on UPnP, but this is what I seem to be empirically observing (didn't check the frames!) with the Logitech protocol between SqueezeBoxes and the Logitech Media Server. Having reserved IP addresses solved difficulties to reconnect when the server went down (because on a laptop) and speeded up everything.

Hi Moomoo, the application should retain the ARP request info for a period of time (mac address/IP address pairing). This prevents unnecessary network traffic of ARP broadcasts. However after a period of time or under software control such as a timeout, the device wanting to talk to another device on the same network should send out an ARP broadcast request saying if you have address x.x.x.x tell me your mac address. Then device with x.x.x.x responds with its mac address and then allows the information to be sent to the mac address. Therefore if ip addresses change the process still works all be it you might need to wait for a short timeout.

Now the upnp application discovery process usually uses multicast  packets to discover the participating devices IP addresses. I guess under application control you could hardwire a device so the client always assumes its there with a given set of functions.. Perhaps tha fits with your Logitech example?

So all in there shouldn't be a problem unless the multicast discovery broadcast or ARP broadcast is being interfered with or blocked due to bad/poor quality network components. 

Reserving an IP address avoids the reliance of that device to use DHCP. Again if the network is poor or the  DHCP client or server software implementation is poor this can avoid issues around DHCP discovery or interoperability.

I have found on earlier firmware the  Naim DHCP client software on the NDX is not robust to DHCP discovery failure, and so if the DHCP request failed for whatever reason  it seemed to not try again. I don't know if this was strengthened in later firmware.

Simon

Hi guys

Thanks for the advice.

Maurice, my profile is out of date - sorry for confusion.  I have been using an NDS with the unitiserve now for the last week.  I used to get the occasional same problem when I was using a Uniti 6mths or so back - did not seem as prevalent though (ie maybe once per week vs > once per day over the last week with the NDS in play).

I installed a new router (Motorola Centra Grande) a few days ago to try and resolve connectivity issues... solved the wifi connectivity problem, but still getting this dropout problem.  I'll read through your advice carefully tomorrow (ie later today!) and see if this works.

Many thanks again for your time in answering my call for help.  The NDS is sounding superb, but this issue is somewhat tainting the experience.

Cheers

Robbo

Hi Robbo,

I use my NDS with my UnitiServe, and do not experience ANY connectivity issues.  The server and the NDS are both connected to the same Netgear gigabit switch; I rely on that switch, rather than the switch built into my home router/modem, and I believe that that's an inexpensive insurance policy towards good home network performance. 

Robbo, Barts advice is sound, I did ask how you are connecting your devices with.. You now mention wifi pronlems.. Are you connecting with wifi? If so I would connect with regular wired Ethernet going to a little stanalone switch. They cost 10s of pounds so not much in the grand scheme of Naim hifi.

Simon

Robbo,

Bart and Simon are right of course. First of all, have your UnitiServe and NDS connected with wired Ethernet through a switch, and connect the switch to your router with wired Ethernet too. You can find small 5-8 ports Netgear unmanaged gigabit switches on Toppreise for 30-40.- (I guess they would have some at MediaMarkt too).

I am using wired ethernet, but no separate switch.  Seems that a switch seems like the first port of call - I'll give that a go first, although I must admit that, being a complete technophobe, I have not idea what a switch actually does!

A switch routes network traffic to different devices according to an address given in the data packages.

When using a router (that is the device that connects your home network to the network of your internet provider) that also contains a few switch ports, that is less optimal because the router has to do other things as well.

When putting a switch in between the router and your Naim devices, the traffic among the Naim devices will not go beyond the switch because the switch recognises it is local traffic and will handle it by itself, so doesn't use the router at all.

And a dedicated switch is very good and efficient in what is does, thereby giving more stable connections between the locally attached devices than when traffic has go to a (busy) router.

-

aleg

Thanks for putting that eloquently into lay man's terms aleg :-)

So will any switch do it, or do I need to take into account the type of router? 

No, any switch would do. For instance, a Netgear GS605 (5 ports, the white one, NOT the black AV version). The looks are more suited to a domestic environment than the traditional switches from Netgear. Toppreise have them for ~35.-

Looks just the job.  Thanks Maurice.

Righteo, switch is in place (GS605 per your recommendation Maurice).  Waiting to see if that makes a difference before embarking on deciphering / implementing your other recommendations (I am a technophobe remember ;- )

I may be back...

I think there has been progress, but still experiencing an issue.

The NDS now finds the Unitiserve since adding the switch.  That's the good news :-)

The issue I still have is that the i-stream app (via ipad) shows the NDS but selecting tracks to play doesn't instigate any music!  After trying a number of times to select tracks the app tells me that the play list if full. Selecting the playlist then tells me that there are no tracks selected.... weird.  Has happened a number of times over the last few days, and was also happening pre adding the switch.

The problem seems to be solved, at least sometimes, by playing something via the NDS directly, ie selecting iradio or something via the NDS remote.  This seems to jolt the stream app back into action.

Any ideas? 

After posting above that I never have "ANY" connectivity issues, I had one last night.  nServe on both my phone and iPad were alternating between "server not found," and "streamer not found."  I restarted my iPad and got rid of the "server not found" error.  It would then let me select tracks to play, but as you wrote they did not play.  Or it'd play 1 second of music, and then stop.  I restarted the NDS and it all worked fine thereafter. 

An occasional 'reboot' isn't a bad idea I suppose, and this is the first time in the 3 months I've owned the NDS that I had an issue or had to restart it, so I'm not too worried.

I'd recommend uninstalling and reinstalling nStream on your iPad.

Hi Bart, iPad and iPhone are unstable when both using nserver controlling the same device. Best use one or the other.

Robbo, ok that is a strange one, and this time it doesn't sound network related... I assume you cleared the upnp caches on the iPad / iPhone?

Simon

Hi SImon

I did clear the caches a few days ago - not sure it's something I would need to do on a regular basis though?

Bart, I also had the issue you describe -playing 1 second then stopping.  I also rebooted the NDS.  That one seems to be ok since installing the switch - fingers crossed.

question: when creating a playlist where is it stored - on the app or on the NDS?  (sorry if that is an obvious question)

Thanks Simon.  I somewhat figured that out on my own, but not before screwing up the connection(s).  Trying to run a second instance of nServe on a second iDevice seems to be asking for trouble!

Hi I meant Nstream not Nserver of course.

Robbo the playlists ate stored as files on the ipad/iPhone and then uploaded to the network player when you select it.

Simon

So today I uninstalled the app and reinstalled, still same issues... this is starting to drive me batty!

My wife has now given up trying to use the streamer in my absence (her initial enthusiasm for the setup is waning... I see my plans of new amp and speakers fading, I'm starting to get desperate!)

So, willing to try anything, do I have anything to lose by reserving the IP address of the NDS & US?

And if so... (apologies) just how do I do that - ie how do i get into the router to reserve the IP addresses (I did warn you I'm a technophobe!)

Can you find the router on your pc and right click to 'properties' - mine then shows the information to put in the web address bar which brings up the router control panel.  G