RAV4 v CRV v BMW X3

Don,

I am the original owner of a 1997 CRV with 222,000 miles on it.  It was built in Japan.  I've done all the routine maintenance on it, aside from the timing belt/water pump/drive belts being replaced at the shop.  At that time, there was a recall for emissions, and all the ignition wires were replaced at no cost.  Nothing major has needed to be done.  I replaced each of the cooling fans and the radiator at about 185K miles.  Aside from the headlights and a couple of turn signals, most of the light bulbs are original.  The vehicle has original struts and has never gone out of alignment.  80K tires last about 85K on it.  Front brakes need replacement about the same interval.

As you say, visibility out of it is excellent and the AWD and ABS work great in the snow.  I still get about 24 mpg in suburban driving conditions outside of Seattle.  It still looks very nice as far as paint and exterior.  The interior has held up quite well, aside from the driver's floor mat which is starting to get a hole in it.  My only issue is that road and wind noise are loud, but I can hardly complain about that, given the outstanding reliability.  I don't know how the newer CDVs fare in that regard.  My model is pretty basic with power windows and locks, but without all the bells and whistles the newer ones have.

Oh, I did have the AC recharged at 180K and it still works fine.  Another model you might want to consider is the Subaru Forester; very popular in this area with good owner loyalty.  Cheers.

Thanks Joe,

The CRV my daughter has in Vernon is about 5 years old now and hasn't had any problems since we lost the coolant in Vancouver. It is a nice vehicle. If I drive it smoothly, I get about 35mpg but they get more like 30mpg. Mrs D is leaning this way.

The RAV4 we have was bought about 10 years ago and is now about 15 years old so similar in age to your CRV. It is very basic, no a/c for example so it gets a bit warm in the summer. But its been totally reliable and does about 35mpg and still looks good. Its roomy enough with just two of us, but small for four of us with luggage. Its been all over BC, Alberta, Yukon, Alaska and the NW USA (Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming etc

However, both Honda and Toyota have introduced new models since 1996/7. Fortunately these do seem to be as good, if not better than both our existing models.

We met a group of friends last night for drinks, and I was told that BMW X3s are prone to turbo failures at c.60k so I think I am focussing on the CRVs and RAVs. Your experience has been very helpful.

Many thanks

Don

mista h

My daughter's BMW X3 has the 2.5 deisel engine with turbo charger.

Did any of your 3 Seriers have this combination ? and did any of them suffer turbo failures ?

Many thanks

Don

Don

Having been in the motor trade for the last 25 years Honda's and Toyota's are some of the most reliable makes around. I've never had to do any major repairs on either just normal servicing.

BMW Turbo failure is more likely to be down to incorrect oil grade having been used, Most new diesel turbo engines must have the correct low ash synthetic oil recommended by the manufacture used or you will suffer all sorts of induction problems

Steve

Don

I can't comment on the BMW X3 turbo issue but being prone to turbo failure at 60k sounds more like urban legend than fact. Having said that, I think you have been heading in the right direction all along. The RAV 4 and CRV are so beautifully made and so reliable and do their intended job so well it makes little sense to look elsewhere. The Subaru Forester was also a great recommendation for similar reasons and a new version will be available shortly.

I've owned two BMW's and my present car is a 328i Sportwagon. Its a great car if you love to drive for driving sake which I do.  It is also beautifully made. But that driving feel and marketing cache come at a high cost both initially and for maintenance once off warranty. The X series bimmers are nice but very premium priced. If you have to do BMW look at the new X1 ( new in the US at least).

All said and done and given their likely use in Canada, I think you are far better off with the CRV, RAV 4, or Subaru.

Don

I must apologise for reading your first post wrong. I misread it,which is my stupid fault. All the BMs i had were the 3 series with 2 litre petrol engines.

Steve C should be able to throw more light on this but the guy that services our cars once told me that if you own a car with a Turbo diesel engine and you have driven it hard (like a Mway trip) you should always let the engine idle for a few mins to let the turbo slow/cool down  before switching off. Never owned a Honda but a very close friend of mine owns one of their large models. Last year his other half smashed a front headlight in and he had to take out a 2nd mortgage to get it fixed.

Mista h

Thanks Steve,

She only had the BMW for about six months (2nd hand) but she'd had it serviced once by a local independent BMW "specialist". We've used him for years to service the girl's Polo's and Golf's, but I'll check what type of oil he used for that last service.

Cheers

Don

Clay,

I have had doubts about BMWs for many years because one of our neighbours has problems with an MX3 (sports car ? - I hope i've recalled this correctly). He bought it new and after 18 months of being messed about, traded it in (at a massive loss) for an X5, which worked fine, until he traded that in (at another massive loss) for a BMW 2l deisel estate, which hasn't faired too well.

However, daughter No1 (BMW) previously had a 4 year old CRV (like her Canadian sister) but it was written off last year when a taxi driver crashed into it whilst it was parked (empty !). So she took the .c£16k insurance from the CRV and used it to buy this 4 year old X3  The prices of these CRVs. RAV4s and X3s all seemed to be similar at the 3 or 4 year old stage, so I included them all in my list.

But i'm begining to focus on the Honda and Toyota at present (reinforced by your's and other comments above), although buying any car, especially second hand involves some level of risk. I was thinking of a three year old with a main dealer warranty.

I had a quick google at BMW X3 turbo failures and there seems to be some evidence that its a bit more substantial than urban myth - but then the inter-net is full of urban myth as well......

Many thanks for sharing your thoughts

Don.

mist h,

re letting turbo chargers cool down, that is exactly what we so with turbo-charged aero engines, allow a few minutes. Good advice and i've suggested to daughter No1 to take heed, but.........life's too short is her view.

Cheers

Don

Turbocharger cool down isn't so important these days, improved lubrication and water cooled centre bearing carriers have stop the carbonising of the oil in the bearings leading to turbo failure due to lack of lubrication (hello Renault 5 GT turbo). Diesel exhaust gas temperatures are lower than petrol equivalents so the turbo has an easier life. Good practice though as Mista H says to give the turbo a few moments to spin down before it loses oil pressure when the engine is switched off after a high speed run. Personally I'd take the X3. BMW diesel engine technology is one of the best and the 2.0d engine is strong and reliable. 

James

Turbo cool down is still important, If you switch the engine off at high rev's it will starve the turbo of oil and lead to premature failure.Always let the engine tick over even for a little while before switching off.  

Dear Don,

When last we changed one of our vehicles the choice was narrowed down to either the X3, CR-V or Audi Q5. We discounted the Rav because it didn't offer an auto turbo diesel ( I really can't be bothered with stirring gearsticks around these days)

 We discounted the Audi because its extras were ridiculously expensive. I was initally attracted to the BMW because, unusually for BMW, the model we were interested in included many of the gadgets we wanted included in the price. It drove well but the rear storage was realtively poor in comparison to the   CR-V (we've two dogs to cart around)

 The CR-V was considerably better than either the BMW or Audi, in space, driving dynamics and gadgets included so we bought one. Henry ( SWMBO always names our vehicles) has proved over some 22K miles/ two years to be completely reliable, superbly comfortable on long drives and we've been more than satisfied with him. highly recommended, and built in Swindon!

oh dear........

Seriously, many thanks Tony. You've described many of the CRV's aspects that have attracted me towards it.

My two eldest daughters have each owned a CRV. One is petrol/automatic (Canada) the other was diesel/manual (UK but destroyed in an accident) - i don't mind shifting the gears so would be happy with either. Both of these vehicles are/were a delight to drive, reasonably economic and (appart from one small incident) totally reliable.

I suppose I am heading in the same direction (I did sort of help the girls with their choices) but I do prefer the external looks of the BMW and the Toyota. As in other aspects of life - good looks are a powerful attraction - even if only skin deep. I am trying to be a bit more objective and your experience is helping me move in a more rational direction.

Many thanks

Don 

If you think the X3 is atrractive maybe glasses first?

Hi Don -

I've been a Volvo owner for the last 20 years.  Yes, I know they are now owned by the Chinese, but so far it appears that the Swedes have been left alone to do as they see fit.  We switched from Toyota in 1992, and never looked back -- 100% reliability for the six different models we've owned.  The only unplanned service I've ever had was a software upgrade.  My 2007 S80 (V6, no turbo) had its check engine light come on about 18 months ago, and the error code was traced to the fuel control module.  The dealership could have told me to replace it for $875, and I would have been none the wiser. Instead, they cleared the error and updated the software.  That service cost me $111, of which $90 was a minimum labor charge, and I've had no problems since.

Have never sat in more comfortable car seats -- Volvo's buckets were designed by chiropractors.  I've always been partial to their style, but perhaps not everyone likes Scandinavian modern.  The other thing I've like about the Volvos we've owned is a complete lack of rattles and squeaks.  Mrs. Hook is driving a 2004 XC70, and it is as quiet today as it was when we first took it home.  And most importantly, while it is true that other auto manufacturers have dramatically improved their safety features, most all of them have been chasing Volvo for decades.  Not sure if you ever stay in Canada during the winter months, but I think that nobody does better on snowy, icy roads.  On several occasions, Mrs. Hook and I have have avoided Minnesota's ditches thanks solely to Volvo's stability and traction control system.  

Good luck with your choice!

Hook

PS - The XC60 is their direct competitor to the other small SUV's you are looking at...

Thanks Hook,,

I have always admired Volvos (I lived in Sweden - Orebro in 1967) and had the use of a Volvo then. I have simply prefered my Mercs, but admit my second choice here in the UK could well be a Volvo. As you say, solid as a rock and just as reliable.

I will ask daughter No 2 (Canada) to take a look at some XC 60s as well as the CRVs and RAV4s

Many thanks for the suggestion.

Cheers

Don

I have known a few people the X3 and X5 beemers, and they are dreadful on fuel economy, and seriously bad also to run.

I understand that one of the most reliable motors worth considering (but is a car the appears to drop under the radar) is a Subaru AWD estate, but can't remember the Model name. It is very well respected and most capable of off terrain work

Just googled it and think its the Forrester 

Funnyly enough, I've just got back this morning from the eye clinic (had slightly raised interocular pressures but they are back down to 15/15 again so OK)

....nope, X3s still look ok to me....

Cheers

Don

Thanks Cbr, one or two others have mentioned the Forrester as well, but for some reason, they just don't appeal to me. But thanks again for the suggestion.

Cheers

Don

I love my X5, but it is rather dreadful on fuel economy.  The diesels do better than the gas (petrol) models of course.  We are still purchasing petrol here in the States at less than 1/2 the price it is in the UK.  If I lived in the UK I'd be driving something much more economical.

Hi,

I am in a position where we need a newer 4*4 - our Land Rover is a bit rusty (er, quite a lot really) & has done 200,000 miles but it still goes well, we need a tough truck that will carry, say 300Kg of cement in the back and pull a full trailer no problems, drive into our field, load with logs etc - for example. Couldnt care less about what it looks like & the less gadgets the better.

I have looked at a few alternative like RAV 4 ect but they just dont cut it where raw grunt & off road ability is required. Therefore I am considering: Isuzu 3.1 Trooper, Mitsubishi Pajro or preferred solution is Toyota Landcruiser - this seems to be the best by far.

That said, out of what you mention Id opt for the RAV4 for a run around 4*4 with a diesel & manual transmission if you want good economy.

Just my opinion, so dont  hang me for it!

Bonne Annee

N

Hi Bart

The X5 looks nice but its a bit bigger than we really need and a bit thirsty, even at Canadian prices of $1.30 a litre. But if we saw an X3 at a bargin price I would be tempted.

Cheers

Don

Hi N,

I used to drive a Land Rover 40+ years ago in the Middle East. It was the only reliable way to cross the deserts (other than camels. Kenwoods and the old Bedford trucks). The Toyota Landcruisers were a bit more comfy, but I must have pulled half a dozen of them out of the sand with my land Rover.

I would be tempted to replace your Land Rover with........another Land Rover.

Cheers

Don