What are you listening to and WHY might anyone be interested? (Vol.IX)

Franz Ferdinand - Tonight

Chris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8utWBtFQMs

Very good; 'new discoveries'; new early performance-style; new artwork-style.

Time for a bit of Jesca

forum recomendation really rather good,,

Good stuff. Does what it says on the tin. 81 tracks on one CD!

More lovely advertising stuff

Midnight Cowboy [VINYL] [Soundtrack]

Graham

Music from the '70s kids' TV sci-fi show "The Tomorrow People", including Dudley Simpson's brilliantly eerie theme:

Hi Matt,

Great  CCWR album.

Graham

Original vinyl. I heard this album recently at 911gt3r's bash and bought a nice minty copy at the market for £4. 'Dance On A Volcano' is sounding good with the new Akiva.

Bless you, namesake.

Looking forward to listening this when I get home from Helsinki tomorrow night, having to make do with this on the iPod tonight

+1 I'll join you on that, Kevin .... 

LP bought from a charity shop. Freshly cleaned by the new record cleaner and sounding goooood.

Graham

Originally Posted by Florestan:

Just completely unimaginative and clearly in the anti-emotion camp.  This works for some but it leaves me completely unmoved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Florestan,

Do you feel the same way with his Nocturnes, too?

 

His earlier Op.15 No.4 is one of my favourite. Gentle to 

turbulent in a split second. Pollini's Chopin isn't overly sweet but has a wry retrospective feel. Nice touch he adds a subtle period at the end. Beautiful.

Listening to the Op.27 No. 8.

Opulent and flowing but never sappy or over fragrant. Cristal clear tone and fingerwork sounds like a voices from afar. A streamlined ellegance. Beautiful melody making.( to me anyways ) A touch Schubertian but a stronger sweet moving melody line assures this is very Chopin.

 

Or his No.19 Op.72.

Sense of sorrow and sadness abound. High drama from the top. A greater dynamic expressions and feel a person's turmoil behind the tune. This is the fastest rendtion so far but he says so much more with very little.

 

I was actually taken back how effective his Nocturnes ( again to me ) are and gained a greater respect to this pianist.

A very interesting discussion on Pollini. My question would be for the ones not liking his recording, what would they recommend ?

Inspired by another thread. Full Fat!!!

Originally Posted by kuma:

Originally Posted by Florestan:

Just completely unimaginative and clearly in the anti-emotion camp.  This works for some but it leaves me completely unmoved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Florestan,

Do you feel the same way with his Nocturnes, too?

 

His earlier Op.15 No.4 is one of my favourite. Gentle to 

turbulent in a split second. Pollini's Chopin isn't overly sweet but has a wry retrospective feel. Nice touch he adds a subtle period at the end. Beautiful.

Listening to the Op.27 No. 8.

Opulent and flowing but never sappy or over fragrant. Cristal clear tone and fingerwork sounds like a voices from afar. A streamlined ellegance. Beautiful melody making.( to me anyways ) A touch Schubertian but a stronger sweet moving melody line assures this is very Chopin.

 

Or his No.19 Op.72.

Sense of sorrow and sadness abound. High drama from the top. A greater dynamic expressions and feel a person's turmoil behind the tune. This is the fastest rendtion so far but he says so much more with very little.

 

I was actually taken back how effective his Nocturnes ( again to me ) are and gained a greater respect to this pianist.

A very interesting discussion on Pollini. My question would be for the ones not liking his recording, what would they recommend ?

OK, I don't want to be known as a Pollini basher.  I own virtually every recording he has put out.  I have the highest respect for him and his pianism.  It is only my own personal view though that as of late I simply find his Chopin to be philosophically opposite to what I'd do.  Chopin was the first composer I began to study at any length from about age 7 onwards and he is the composer I have probably spent the most time with so most of his music is in my fingers and bones.  As a pianist it is hard not to get around Chopin as he so perfectly exemplified what the instrument is.  His personality also epitomizes the piano as an expressive language - they are one.

I have so many Nocturne recordings.  The snarky answer right now would be that I'd recommend anything over and above Pollini but that would contradict my usual view that there are no bad interpretations, just different views about the same subject.  Nothing wrong with Pollini if you enjoy what he does, however, I might pick something like Moravec as an example of what I consider more ideal:

Why?  Well, the music under his fingers just breaths life.  It is warmer and gentler.  Generally slower across the board and it is what you might hear late at night in my house.  I just could not rush through these and play loudly.  Pollini plays these on stage and of course an audience expects other things (faster/louder).  These are Nocturnes after all so you'd expect a nocturnal interpretation and approach - romantic, dreamy, pensive, introspective, moody, ruminative, reflective etc.  If you sit alone in a dimly lit room, maybe during a snow storm or as rain is falling on your roof, late at night in front of a keyboard you will have no choice but to experience what you need to feel this music.  

I personally do not understand when certain music is criticized for being to this or that (ie. romantic period music being what is really is not) - it is what it is and what the composer meant it to be.  Pollini is simply to unattached or dispassionate (in Chopin) for me but he has other strong qualities instead.  To quote Kuma, you cannot call Pollini's reading namby pamby   But, whatever that means, I don't want namby pamby either but it is quite the opposite of Pollini's personality. 

I will quote EJ now as I think he hears it somewhat as to what I have tried to say all along:

What I do hear - occasionally - is a driven quality that does not allow the music to breath as much as it could

Yes! What I hear is my metronome when I'm practicing.  Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick...  None stop, it is his mission statement - "I will not bend - NEVER...people who show emotions are weak and unfit to be part of the human race..."  And it's perfectly in time as expected but it then comes off as inflexible and thus chokes the life out of the music.  Humans, by the way should be able to experience all emotions and we have all kinds of music to allow you to do this.  For example, you don't need to worry about emotional aspects so much in 20th century music.  This is appropriate for Shoenberg, Hindemith, Berg (where nobody knows what's going on anyway) and Pollini excels here.  These composers stomped out tonal music and despised any show of emotion and hints toward beauty.  There anthems were crude and banal by design.

That's all I can say right night.  Basically, in this particular music, for me, it has to be allowed to be flexible and to breath.  You have to take your time with it and bring natural pauses or unexpected pushing and pulling to a degree (rubato but not too much and only where and when appropriate).

Another great Chopin player is Maria-Joao Pires.  She is slightly more pointed and aggressive than Moravec but you can easily see her passion and drive in the music and how she allows the music to rise and fall.  She has a wonderful musical sense.  The only thing is I don't care for what DGG did to her recorded sound - otherwise this is a very good second choice.  

Regards,

Doug

Originally Posted by kuma:

Originally Posted by Florestan:

Just completely unimaginative and clearly in the anti-emotion camp.  This works for some but it leaves me completely unmoved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Florestan,

Do you feel the same way with his Nocturnes, too?

 

His earlier Op.15 No.4 is one of my favourite. Gentle to 

turbulent in a split second. Pollini's Chopin isn't overly sweet but has a wry retrospective feel. Nice touch he adds a subtle period at the end. Beautiful.

Listening to the Op.27 No. 8.

Opulent and flowing but never sappy or over fragrant. Cristal clear tone and fingerwork sounds like a voices from afar. A streamlined ellegance. Beautiful melody making.( to me anyways ) A touch Schubertian but a stronger sweet moving melody line assures this is very Chopin.

 

Or his No.19 Op.72.

Sense of sorrow and sadness abound. High drama from the top. A greater dynamic expressions and feel a person's turmoil behind the tune. This is the fastest rendtion so far but he says so much more with very little.

 

I was actually taken back how effective his Nocturnes ( again to me ) are and gained a greater respect to this pianist.

A very interesting discussion on Pollini. My question would be for the ones not liking his recording, what would they recommend ?

I generally prefer female pianists of the esp. the older generation over these speed-loving virtuosi.

Try someone like Livia Rev 

Originally Posted by Bert Schurink:

Originally Posted by kuma:

Originally Posted by Florestan:

Just completely unimaginative and clearly in the anti-emotion camp.  This works for some but it leaves me completely unmoved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Florestan,

Do you feel the same way with his Nocturnes, too?

 

His earlier Op.15 No.4 is one of my favourite. Gentle to 

turbulent in a split second. Pollini's Chopin isn't overly sweet but has a wry retrospective feel. Nice touch he adds a subtle period at the end. Beautiful.

Listening to the Op.27 No. 8.

Opulent and flowing but never sappy or over fragrant. Cristal clear tone and fingerwork sounds like a voices from afar. A streamlined ellegance. Beautiful melody making.( to me anyways ) A touch Schubertian but a stronger sweet moving melody line assures this is very Chopin.

 

Or his No.19 Op.72.

Sense of sorrow and sadness abound. High drama from the top. A greater dynamic expressions and feel a person's turmoil behind the tune. This is the fastest rendtion so far but he says so much more with very little.

 

I was actually taken back how effective his Nocturnes ( again to me ) are and gained a greater respect to this pianist.

A very interesting discussion on Pollini. My question would be for the ones not liking his recording, what would they recommend ?

OK, I don't want to be known as a Pollini basher.  I own virtually every recording he has put out.  I have the highest respect for him and his pianism.  It is only my own personal view though that as of late I simply find his Chopin to be philosophically opposite to what I'd do.  Chopin was the first composer I began to study at any length from about age 7 onwards and he is the composer I have probably spent the most time with so most of his music is in my fingers and bones.  As a pianist it is hard not to get around Chopin as he so perfectly exemplified what the instrument is.  His personality also epitomizes the piano as an expressive language - they are one.

 

I have so many Nocturne recordings.  The snarky answer right now would be that I'd recommend anything over and above Pollini but that would contradict my usual view that there are no bad interpretations, just different views about the same subject.  Nothing wrong with Pollini if you enjoy what he does, however, I might pick something like Moravec as an example of what I consider more ideal:

 

 

Why?  Well, the music under his fingers just breaths life.  It is warmer and gentler.  Generally slower across the board and it is what you might hear late at night in my house.  I just could not rush through these and play loudly.  Pollini plays these on stage and of course an audience expects other things (faster/louder).  These are Nocturnes after all so you'd expect a nocturnal interpretation and approach - romantic, dreamy, pensive, introspective, moody, ruminative, reflective etc.  If you sit alone in a dimly lit room, maybe during a snow storm or as rain is falling on your roof, late at night in front of a keyboard you will have no choice but to experience what you need to feel this music.  

 

I personally do not understand when certain music is criticized for being to this or that (ie. romantic period music being what is really is not) - it is what it is and what the composer meant it to be.  Pollini is simply to unattached or dispassionate (in Chopin) for me but he has other strong qualities instead.  To quote Kuma, you cannot call Pollini's reading namby pamby   But, whatever that means, I don't want namby pamby either but it is quite the opposite of Pollini's personality. 

 

I will quote EJ now as I think he hears it somewhat as to what I have tried to say all along:

 

What I do hear - occasionally - is a driven quality that does not allow the music to breath as much as it could

 

Yes! What I hear is my metronome when I'm practicing.  Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick...  None stop, it is his mission statement - "I will not bend - NEVER...people who show emotions are weak and unfit to be part of the human race..."  And it's perfectly in time as expected but it then comes off as inflexible and thus chokes the life out of the music.  Humans, by the way should be able to experience all emotions and we have all kinds of music to allow you to do this.  For example, you don't need to worry about emotional aspects so much in 20th century music.  This is appropriate for Shoenberg, Hindemith, Berg (where nobody knows what's going on anyway) and Pollini excels here.  These composers stomped out tonal music and despised any show of emotion and hints toward beauty.  There anthems were crude and banal by design.

 

That's all I can say right night.  Basically, in this particular music, for me, it has to be allowed to be flexible and to breath.  You have to take your time with it and bring natural pauses or unexpected pushing and pulling to a degree (rubato but not too much and only where and when appropriate).

 

Another great Chopin player is Maria-Joao Pires.  She is slightly more pointed and aggressive than Moravec but you can easily see her passion and drive in the music and how she allows the music to rise and fall.  She has a wonderful musical sense.  The only thing is I don't care for what DGG did to her recorded sound - otherwise this is a very good second choice.  

 

Regards,

Doug

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doug,

Well, I guess Moravec and Pollini are mutually exclusive in Chopin. Let's put it down to personal preference, both in what we want to hear in this music (I don't subscribe to the Rubinstein / Moravec view of these being dreamy, soft-focus in nature; much prefer Pires' heart-on-sleeve overtly romantic songs-without-words, or Arrau's journey to the center of the earth), as well as what we hear in the interpreter (again, I don't hear any lack of emotion or spirit - I hear a man who plays come scritto , trying his best to stay as close to the notes and the composer's original intentions as possible). Not saying there aren't other approaches, but - to me - Pollini is wholly enjoyable and even going a step further, arguably at his best in Schumann and Chopin.

Now, let's bury the hatchett Apart from your fondness for Grimaud and Bang Bang Lang Lang, which I don't share, I generally am with you on your preferences, and always enjoy reading your strong personally-influenced notes.

Best regards,

EJ

Book of the Week on R4. Orwell on pleasuredomes, and on tourism and the English character. Very enjoyable.

Chris

I'll pick that up on your recommendation. (I just love the cover photo, too)