Network Hell..P.........please?

Posted by: GraemeH on 02 January 2013

The joys of the Virgin Media 'SuperHub' are giving me hell in trying to get my home network to recognise the HDX on the main PC via desktop client.

 

As the Virgin modem has almost no wireless capability I have connected my Belkin Router to it and my PC as follows:

 

1. White broadband cable from wall to Virgin Modem

2. Yellow cable from Virgin Modem to Belkin Router

3. Grey cable from Belkin Router to back of PC where green light flickers

4. Cat6 cable from Virgin Modem to HDX

 

With regard to 4: This is the only way the HDX connects to the internet.  I have tried taking the Cat6 from the output socket of the Belkin Router and nada - and yes, the HDX MAC address is logged into the Belkin but the HDX does not connect to the internet on boot-up nor does the main (only) PC's desktop client find the HDX in this configuration.

 

The HDX is not found by the desktop client and so I'm unable to create a back-up NAS.

 

Not sure what the hell is going on and it's driving me nuts - Nserve works fine from iPod.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Graeme

 

 

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Bart

Graeme, I will take a stab at this and predict that your problem arises because you have a router plugged into a router.  The Virgin Media SuperHub has modem, router and switch capabilities, as well as wifi.  You should be able to eliminate that Belkin Router completely.  I suspect that you've got some combination of 'double NAT' and/or other odd ip address problems because you've got two routers each wanting to assign ip addresses to devices on your network (or perhaps networks, with each router trying to set up its own network!).

 

If you need more ports than the SuperHub provides, use a switch, not a router.  The Netgear Gigabit 5 or 8-port switches work just fine.

 

Hope this helps

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Bart:

Graeme, I will take a stab at this and predict that your problem arises because you have a router plugged into a router.  The Virgin Media SuperHub has modem, router and switch capabilities, as well as wifi.  You should be able to eliminate that Belkin Router completely.  I suspect that you've got some combination of 'double NAT' and/or other odd ip address problems because you've got two routers each wanting to assign ip addresses to devices on your network (or perhaps networks, with each router trying to set up its own network!).

 

If you need more ports than the SuperHub provides, use a switch, not a router.  The Netgear Gigabit 5 or 8-port switches work just fine.

 

Hope this helps

Thanks Bart - Problem is that the 'Superhub' has hopeless wi-fi and so I need the Belkin too for that purpose.  I guess I have to live with it and do without a NAS back-up.....Still have all the CD's as ultimate back-up if the HDX flunks.

 

Cheers. G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by spartacus

Naim suggests that you switch the Virgin hub to "modem only mode" in the permanent posts at the top of the Streaming Audio threads. That could resolve your problem and allow you to use the Belkin router, plus a switch if you need more ports.

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by spartacus:

Naim suggests that you switch the Virgin hub to "modem only mode" in the permanent posts at the top of the Streaming Audio threads. That could resolve your problem and allow you to use the Belkin router, plus a switch if you need more ports.

Thanks Spartacus - Tried that.  The problem is that the Belkin port connected to HDX does not let HDX access the internet for some reason.  Neither does it appear in the desk top client search....G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Bart
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Bart:

Graeme, I will take a stab at this and predict that your problem arises because you have a router plugged into a router.  The Virgin Media SuperHub has modem, router and switch capabilities, as well as wifi.  You should be able to eliminate that Belkin Router completely.  I suspect that you've got some combination of 'double NAT' and/or other odd ip address problems because you've got two routers each wanting to assign ip addresses to devices on your network (or perhaps networks, with each router trying to set up its own network!).

 

If you need more ports than the SuperHub provides, use a switch, not a router.  The Netgear Gigabit 5 or 8-port switches work just fine.

 

Hope this helps

Thanks Bart - Problem is that the 'Superhub' has hopeless wi-fi and so I need the Belkin too for that purpose.  I guess I have to live with it and do without a NAS back-up.....Still have all the CD's as ultimate back-up if the HDX flunks.

 

Cheers. G

Understood!  But you've got to stop using two routers

 

What I do is what I'd recommend you to do.  Turn off the wifi on the SuperHub from its setup menu.  It would still provide DHCP services to the rest of your home network in that mode.  Then, you'd simply need a wifi source (a wireless "access point" as they are often called) and connect it to one of the ethernet ports on the SuperHub.  You may be able to use the Belkin that way; you'd have to turn off all of the other services on the Belkin, particularly DHCP.  If the Belkin is not happy in such a mode or if it's not able to be used that way, you could replace it with a wireless access point from Netgear, or even an Apple Airport Extreme.  I use an Airport Extreme and am very happy with its wifi; great coverage in my home.  All of the ip addresses are assigned by my version of your SuperHub, and all wireless is provided by the Airport.  Works well for me!

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Bart:

Graeme, I will take a stab at this and predict that your problem arises because you have a router plugged into a router.  The Virgin Media SuperHub has modem, router and switch capabilities, as well as wifi.  You should be able to eliminate that Belkin Router completely.  I suspect that you've got some combination of 'double NAT' and/or other odd ip address problems because you've got two routers each wanting to assign ip addresses to devices on your network (or perhaps networks, with each router trying to set up its own network!).

 

If you need more ports than the SuperHub provides, use a switch, not a router.  The Netgear Gigabit 5 or 8-port switches work just fine.

 

Hope this helps

Thanks Bart - Problem is that the 'Superhub' has hopeless wi-fi and so I need the Belkin too for that purpose.  I guess I have to live with it and do without a NAS back-up.....Still have all the CD's as ultimate back-up if the HDX flunks.

 

Cheers. G

Understood!  But you've got to stop using two routers

 

What I do is what I'd recommend you to do.  Turn off the wifi on the SuperHub from its setup menu.  It would still provide DHCP services to the rest of your home network in that mode.  Then, you'd simply need a wifi source (a wireless "access point" as they are often called) and connect it to one of the ethernet ports on the SuperHub.  You may be able to use the Belkin that way; you'd have to turn off all of the other services on the Belkin, particularly DHCP.  If the Belkin is not happy in such a mode or if it's not able to be used that way, you could replace it with a wireless access point from Netgear, or even an Apple Airport Extreme.  I use an Airport Extreme and am very happy with its wifi; great coverage in my home.  All of the ip addresses are assigned by my version of your SuperHub, and all wireless is provided by the Airport.  Works well for me!

Ah ha!....A 'wireless access point'.....I'll try and acquire one tomorrow and see about ditching the Belkin.....This will still allow wi-fi to multiple iPads/Pods/XBox etc in the house - Yes?

 

Thanks Bart! G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by PinkHamster

Graeme,

 

instead of buying a wifi access point why don't you just get a new modem/router/switch (in one box) of decent quality. They are not very expensive.

I can very much recommend to you the devices by AMW. I don't know if the are available in the UK (are you in the UK? Sorry, didn't look). In Germany they are marketed under the name 'Fritzbox'. But there will also be other good products available anyway.

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by PinkHamster:

Graeme,

 

instead of buying a wifi access point why don't you just get a new modem/router/switch (in one box) of decent quality. They are not very expensive.

I can very much recommend to you the devices by AMW. I don't know if the are available in the UK (are you in the UK? Sorry, didn't look). In Germany they are marketed under the name 'Fritzbox'. But there will also be other good products available anyway.

I thought I needed to use my service providers modem? Doh!.....this sounds simpler and looks to be a similar outlay.  Thanks too.  Graeme.

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by PinkHamster
Originally Posted by GraemeH:

I thought I needed to use my service providers modem?

I won't stick my head too far out the window on this, 'cause I have no idea how this works in Scotland (I did take look after all ). Where I live you can just buy any router and off you go. I'm sure someone else on this forum will be able to give valid information on this topic.

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Guido Fawkes

I'm in England and replaced the service provider's router with my own one ... when I had a fault the ISP refused to help until I restored the router they had provided ... after which they ran line tests and conceded it was a fault at the exchange. I think there should be some legislation to prevent ISPs from taking this attitude - however, they will always try to shift the blame on to the customer if they can. As soon as the service was restored then I put back my router which worked fine and has done ever since. 

 

My router doesn't do wireless so I have an Apple Airport Extreme and it just works. 

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Mac User

Hi Graeme

 

The super hub in modem only mode is the way to go as previously advised? Only Virgin supplied hardware should be connected to their network. The Belkin should have a wan port and this is the one used to connect the super hub, can you confirm that this is the one used?

 

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Mac User:

Hi Graeme

 

The super hub in modem only mode is the way to go as previously advised? Only Virgin supplied hardware should be connected to their network. The Belkin should have a wan port and this is the one used to connect the super hub, can you confirm that this is the one used?

 

The Belkin Port is yellow and says 'To Modem'.... That's how they are linked.....I'd have thought it would be 'From Modem'?....G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Bart
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Bart:

Graeme, I will take a stab at this and predict that your problem arises because you have a router plugged into a router.  The Virgin Media SuperHub has modem, router and switch capabilities, as well as wifi.  You should be able to eliminate that Belkin Router completely.  I suspect that you've got some combination of 'double NAT' and/or other odd ip address problems because you've got two routers each wanting to assign ip addresses to devices on your network (or perhaps networks, with each router trying to set up its own network!).

 

If you need more ports than the SuperHub provides, use a switch, not a router.  The Netgear Gigabit 5 or 8-port switches work just fine.

 

Hope this helps

Thanks Bart - Problem is that the 'Superhub' has hopeless wi-fi and so I need the Belkin too for that purpose.  I guess I have to live with it and do without a NAS back-up.....Still have all the CD's as ultimate back-up if the HDX flunks.

 

Cheers. G

Understood!  But you've got to stop using two routers

 

What I do is what I'd recommend you to do.  Turn off the wifi on the SuperHub from its setup menu.  It would still provide DHCP services to the rest of your home network in that mode.  Then, you'd simply need a wifi source (a wireless "access point" as they are often called) and connect it to one of the ethernet ports on the SuperHub.  You may be able to use the Belkin that way; you'd have to turn off all of the other services on the Belkin, particularly DHCP.  If the Belkin is not happy in such a mode or if it's not able to be used that way, you could replace it with a wireless access point from Netgear, or even an Apple Airport Extreme.  I use an Airport Extreme and am very happy with its wifi; great coverage in my home.  All of the ip addresses are assigned by my version of your SuperHub, and all wireless is provided by the Airport.  Works well for me!

Ah ha!....A 'wireless access point'.....I'll try and acquire one tomorrow and see about ditching the Belkin.....This will still allow wi-fi to multiple iPads/Pods/XBox etc in the house - Yes?

 

Thanks Bart! G

Yes, a wireless access point will provide full wifi to the limit of its capabilities.  I would get one that supports wireless "n" and that does both the 2.5 and 5 gHz bands. 

 

I do think that this is the simplest approach, versus replacing the modem/router with one you buy yourself (and thus will give you headaches with the service provider if/when there are problems even on their end). 

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Bart:

Graeme, I will take a stab at this and predict that your problem arises because you have a router plugged into a router.  The Virgin Media SuperHub has modem, router and switch capabilities, as well as wifi.  You should be able to eliminate that Belkin Router completely.  I suspect that you've got some combination of 'double NAT' and/or other odd ip address problems because you've got two routers each wanting to assign ip addresses to devices on your network (or perhaps networks, with each router trying to set up its own network!).

 

If you need more ports than the SuperHub provides, use a switch, not a router.  The Netgear Gigabit 5 or 8-port switches work just fine.

 

Hope this helps

Thanks Bart - Problem is that the 'Superhub' has hopeless wi-fi and so I need the Belkin too for that purpose.  I guess I have to live with it and do without a NAS back-up.....Still have all the CD's as ultimate back-up if the HDX flunks.

 

Cheers. G

Understood!  But you've got to stop using two routers

 

What I do is what I'd recommend you to do.  Turn off the wifi on the SuperHub from its setup menu.  It would still provide DHCP services to the rest of your home network in that mode.  Then, you'd simply need a wifi source (a wireless "access point" as they are often called) and connect it to one of the ethernet ports on the SuperHub.  You may be able to use the Belkin that way; you'd have to turn off all of the other services on the Belkin, particularly DHCP.  If the Belkin is not happy in such a mode or if it's not able to be used that way, you could replace it with a wireless access point from Netgear, or even an Apple Airport Extreme.  I use an Airport Extreme and am very happy with its wifi; great coverage in my home.  All of the ip addresses are assigned by my version of your SuperHub, and all wireless is provided by the Airport.  Works well for me!

Ah ha!....A 'wireless access point'.....I'll try and acquire one tomorrow and see about ditching the Belkin.....This will still allow wi-fi to multiple iPads/Pods/XBox etc in the house - Yes?

 

Thanks Bart! G

Yes, a wireless access point will provide full wifi to the limit of its capabilities.  I would get one that supports wireless "n" and that does both the 2.5 and 5 gHz bands. 

 

I do think that this is the simplest approach, versus replacing the modem/router with one you buy yourself (and thus will give you headaches with the service provider if/when there are problems even on their end). 

Thanks again....have swiched off the wireless function of the 'Superhub' now in anticipation of doing as you suggest tomorrow......fingers crossed!

 

Will let you know how I get on.

 

Cheers.  G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Magnus Hultstrand
Have just read all of the above and also just realize why Naim still make CD players.... ;-)
Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Yeah it's quite incredible what tat some people get given to try and  get online with and set up the most basic of home networks.. Quite appalling and quite a set back for the so called digital Britain. I just shudder to think of the carnage that  is waiting to happen when ipv6 and related applications get rolled out ... There will be a big divide between those with capable equipment and rubbish.

 

 

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Mac User

What model number is the Belkin router?

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Yeah it's quite incredible what tat some people get given to try and  get online with and set up the most basic of home networks.. Quite appalling and quite a set back for the so called digital Britain. I just shudder to think of the carnage that  is waiting to happen when ipv6 and related applications get rolled out ... There will be a big divide between those with capable equipment and rubbish.

 

 

I suspect it is me that is rubbish in this case!

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Mac User:

What model number is the Belkin router?

Hi - It's FSD8233-4v3...........a few years old now. 

 

Cheers. G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by DrMark

Others are more adept than I in this arena and have given advice, but from my experience getting rid of a Belkin router is never a bad move; I have found Netgear to be MUCH more intuitive and user friendly.  Of course, 2 routers is still 2 routers, and that is apparently the crux of the issue here.

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Mac User

Found a Belkin manual online at last! The super hub is very reliable in modem only mode but just the yellow socket is live in this mode and it should be wired to the Belkin yellow socket in your case. The HDX and PC need to then be wired to the Belkin after a full factory reset of the router. Re-configure via a web browser on the PC and fingers crossed...

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Mac User:

Found a Belkin manual online at last! The super hub is very reliable in modem only mode but just the yellow socket is live in this mode and it should be wired to the Belkin yellow socket in your case. The HDX and PC need to then be wired to the Belkin after a full factory reset of the router. Re-configure via a web browser on the PC and fingers crossed...

Thanks so much. I will get an Apple and then try as you suggest before opening the box.  If a factory reset works Ill return the Apple but if not Ill smash the Belkin with a hammer!  G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Mac User

If that is to be an Apple Extreme Base Station then a fine choice  That is what I use with the super hub...

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Mac User:

If that is to be an Apple Extreme Base Station then a fine choice  That is what I use with the super hub...

Ill go for that I think.  Thanks again.  G

Posted on: 02 January 2013 by Bart
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Mac User:

If that is to be an Apple Extreme Base Station then a fine choice  That is what I use with the super hub...

Ill go for that I think.  Thanks again.  G

G, don't end up right back where you started.  The Airport Extreme will work great, but out of the box it will want to function as a router too.  So using the Apple setup utility, you need to put it into "bridge mode."  Otherwise you'll still have a router connected to a router.  But I can tell you that the Airport Extreme is happy to work in "bridge mode" and provide wifi and wired connectivity to whatever you connect to it.