older Deutsche Grammophon Digital recordings - LP vs Download?

mutterback,

Which DG titles are available in high res files?

And you know for sure they are native high res. files? Not up-sampled *high res* files?

There's maybe 15 - 20 albums available in the UK via Linn Records, and via HD Tracks in the US. Different albums on each store. Not sure if they are up sampled, which is part of the reason for my question.  On HD Tracks, different albums are offered at various rates up to 48/24 88/24 and 96/24 (no 192) so maybe that's a clue that they are not up sampled?  I'll take a gamble and report back.

mutterback,

Just out of curiostiy, what are the DG titles available in high res?

I have from Deutsche Grammophon

Boston Symphony Orchestra conducted by William Steinberg
Holst: The Planets / Strauss: Also Sprach Zarathustra (DG 463 627-2)
as 24 Bit / 96.0 kHz. Can be purchased from qobuz

vlada,

Do you like the performance?

Well, at the first not really :-) The Planets are played for my taste way to fast. However then I learned that Holst himself wanted that The Planets ARE played FAST. After some time I got used to it :-) (Still, sometimes I ask myself: What the heck is Steinberg doing here ? ) Zarathustra is good. At least for my taste. I really like it. The problem is that there is a strange thing. When you start the downloaded album, (I have bought it from qobuz) at the beginning you hear silence for about 90 sec. Nothing. Then the music starts. I asked a good friend of my, who is an experienced Sound Engineer, to analyze the files. Indeed there was a long "nothing" at the beginning of Zarathustra's Intro. He cut this part out on his computer (I think he was using Pro Tools 24 Bit, but I am not sure). 

With respect to the sound quality: Not bad for a record made in 1971. There are a lot of details you can hear and the dynamics is good. Compared to the CD version for me better, but this also may be only due to my equipment. I think that 24 Bit really make a difference. I really like records that have a good dynamic range. 96.0 kHz ?? I am not sure. Sampling frequency of 96.0 kHz would mean a max. frequency of 48 kHz and I am afraid I still not succeed to mix mix my DNA with one of a Bat so I can hear ultrasonic frequencies.

vlada,

"Not bad for a record made in 1971"?

If it's a '71 recording, I think that the original vinyl would sound the best. ( on a decent record player set up correctly )

Actually many records back then ( pre mid 70s ) sound better than now to my ears.

If it's done right and played back correctly, 24/96 files sound great. I'd reckon 24/192 files also can sound good if the playback can handle the file right.

mutterback was talking bout record made in 80s and 90s. Those digitally recorded DG vinyls and CDs are not great sounding. So I am not sure if a high res. file would sound any better.

The Steinberg should be pretty good.  It was a reasonably decent sounding LP if I recall correctly (certainly one of the better DGGs) - I lost my copy in the great divorce cull of '04 - and I liked the performance.  On DGG there were von Karajan's performances as well as Seiji Ozawa's.  Steinberg's was the pick.  Never went for Von Karajan's on DGG although his '60s performance with the VPO on Decca (SXL2305) is probably my favourite of all - strange.

Thanks Kuma and Richard,

Exactly - the older analogue LPs are very nice, and I'm disappointed with the digital LPs and CDs you can get used from this era.  I'm finding it increasingly difficult to get high quality older classical LPs for decent $. 

To refine my question a bit - Any recommendations on a good source of recordings from the 80s or 90s? Are they lost decades for classical music? Post Analogue, but pre high quality digital? I love the recent classical releases from Chandos, Harmonia Mundi, Reference Recordings, Yarlung, et al, but they come at a price.

mutterback,

I think it's title dependent, but here are some of the good early digital ( 80s-90s) I have heard: And I love their performance, too.

1985: Recoreded on a Decca Digital System

1987: If you see early Philips digital in vinyl are excellent. I am very impressed with these particularly for lack of digital starkness. One of the few CDs that sounds natural. They don't make 'em like that any more.

1985: Here's another excellent example of early Philips Digital Vinyl

1982: I was pleasantly surprised how good this record sounds for digital. I have a few horrid London Decca Digital and this isn't one of them. 

1985: If you like him, this sounds better than 'Horowitz in Moscow'. Pity that he was no longer in his prime in all of DG releases altho still very enjoyable.

1983: Early EMI Digital recording

1979: Very early JVC Digital. Horowitz in Moscow should have been recorded like this. 

Hard to imagine this is live as the audience noise is kept to minimum yet this is natural sounding with realistc tonal colour and note decay.

I must say that I do not have many digitally recorded classical vinyls.

Philips, indeed they have some fine digital recordings. Basically one of the first Labels using the Soundstream digital recording system. I do not agree that 80's and early 90's are lost decades for classical music recording. Decca started using Digital Recording end of the 70's. Basically most DECCA recordings starting end of the 70's are digital. They started with 16 Bit but changed soon to 20 Bit and 48.0 kHz sampling rate. A very good recording is Wagner's Ring, conducted by Solti on VINYL!!! The CD did not sound that well since it needed to be converted to 44.1 and 16 Bit. But the recording was done digitally. Also a lot of RCA Red Label recordings during early 80's were done using JVC digital recording equipment.

Solti's Decca recording of the Wagner Ring Cycle was a very long time before digital recording was the norm. 

Some early digital recordings are fine and some are not.

Philips were as variable as could be imagined. Marriner's recording of the two Serenades by Dvorak is superb, but their early digital recordings of the Schumann Symphonies were both dull as recordings and performances.

The first official digital recording by Decca was the 1979 New Year's Day concert, and it is still a superb recording - both as a recording and a happy atmospheric capturing of a great event ....

Digital recording began in 1937, as a British invention ...

ATB from George

Hi George, if you are referring to the Haitink Schumann symphonies, I have to say the sound is slightly glassy but not all that bad as recordings go provided you are OK with multimiking in its most blatant form (not new to digital). Every era has its recording duds, greatest hits would be the Warsaw Pact labels - where they apparently preferred to record in the bath room. Today, the curse of the freelance recording teams means that some recordings are technical miracles that sound unbelievably good, whereas others are just bad - for me a prime example of a bad recording is Pollini's Well Tempered Klavier I for DG.

Cheers,

EJ

Dear EJ,

I had that Haitink Philips set as my first CDs of the Schumann symphonies! I could not remember it was Haitink.

In every way it seemed a poor effort!

I normally admire Haitink, but Sawalisch, Kubelik, Boult, and most particularly Klemperer were given much better older recordings, and totally memorable and involving performances ....

Part of why Pollini might sound so dubious in the 48 is that he is using a completely in-appropriate instrument - about the only parallel with the intended instrument is that it has "keys." Wrong to start; with it could never work well on a musical level ...

ATB from George

Hi George, it was just an example. Pollini may have made better recordings but we both know the WTC can be made to sing on a Steinway. It's just he, and it, usually sounds better. 

Cheers,

EJ

EJ,

This is wandering off topic but exactly where I wanted it to go - What recordings sound "unbelievably great" in your opinion? Tell me more!

Well, to start with orchestral music, have you heard the Decca recording of Mahler 5, by the Concertgebouw Orchestra and Chailly? More recently, I've been impressed by the new Schumann/Liszt recording from Sophie Pacini. Just two among many others... These all heard on regular CD.

Cheers,

EJ

Might be interesting to compare Bang Bang Lang Lang's Chopin album between the CD and vinyl  release.

I haven't bought any recent Sony digital, aside from a few dreadful reissues, but the sound quality went south in the 90s.