Digital on Vinyl – What’s the Point?

I can't play CDs on my LP12 so I always buy the vinyl in preference - and I like the gatefold sleeves and sleeve notes in a font I can read .... 

Digital streaming is fine - especially with 24 bit recordings, but CDs are just not cool 

You can always record CD to cassette though .... 

I think CDs will go away in the next couple of years, especially when 24 bit ALAC becomes the norm or Apple adopts 24 FLAC (if only). 

I know new vinyl when it is recorded digitally isn't right, but I'd sooner be happy than right. 

Totally agree with Mr Fawkes. I tend to only buy vinyl for new releases as well as second hand. CD's are naff and poorly and cheaply made.

This has nothing to do with sound quality of course its just my personal prejudice.

+1 Well said GF. Straight to the point as usual.

Graham.

Because they know that some people will buy it simply because it is on vinyl.

Vinyl is a total PITA. It's expensive, fragile, easily damaged, has to be cleaned, and has to be treated carefully. But it can sound fantastic and so much better than digital, when it is all analog and only analog. I much prefer listening to LPs and that is 90% of my critical listening.

I don't get the point of cutting LPs from digital source of any kind. Once the mastering chain enters the digital domain then it might as well stay there, as files for streaming or mastering to SACD, etc. I'm always careful about buying new vinyl reissues. If part of the mastering process becomes digital I'm not interested in the vinyl edition.

+1

Nicely put RT.

KR

Tony

I certainly agree with you RT about the analogue digital aspects.  I'm finding that for those early 1980s LPs, my ears can generally "spot" when digital has entered into the process. On the other hand, I'm finding vinyl is surprisingly resilient, at least to aging.  My LPs played for ten years then stored for a quarter century sound the same (better now on Naim/Rega gear) as the day the went into the box.  I don't know about other markets around the country, but I'm finding a plethora of good to very good condition used vinyl around Seattle.  Most titles I'm seeking sold well in their day, so are easy to find.  I wouldn't characterize vinyl as fragile, just needs to be treated with respect.  I'm grabbing s/h LPs for $3-5.  A few have been too noisy to keep, and will have to be resold at a loss, but it's not much money overall and I'm happy to still be able to find all analogue stuff.  Happy listening!

In general I prefer vinyl and I find it is worth the time and effort. I even prefer vinyl on digitally-remastered analogue-recorded material assuming it was pressed properly.  However, on new material (particularly pop and rock) I have decided I prefer CD or burning something onto CD I downloaded from itunes or wherever (I don't do computer audio).  One reason is cost, but the other is that new pop and rock vinyl often comes to me already warped, and with ticks and pops, and sometimes it is so bad the vinyl sounds worse than the CD when I have heard both.  The pressing plant really matters.  Most reissued classical and Jazz analogue sounds great, and I bought the infamous Slayer 10 LP "Vinyl Conflict" because it was pressed at RTI, but usually when I bought pop and rock it was clearly pressed from inferior materials and equipment.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience?

Where I say vinyl is fragile, I really mean in the sense that it is prone to damage. You do have to treat it with respect and care. I agree it can last for many years and through many pays. I have vinyl that is 50 years old and still sounds great.

I have found that when used vinyl I acquire is noisy or full of clicks and pops, a lot of that has to do with still having mold release compound adhered to the surface of the vinyl. In many cases I can resolve that with an intense RCM liquid cleaning routine (I use Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions [AIVS} products on an Okki Nokki). I saved an original 1962 release of the Beethoven Symphonies with Karajan/Berliner on DGG that way.

The only recent music I bought on vinyl was "Sigh No More" by Mumford and Sons.  I bought it for my son, who likes them and let him have the pleasure of opening some fresh vinyl.  I put on side one and the music sounded fine, except for a thump, thump, thump.  On inspection the surface was marred on tracks one and two.  The mark is the same radius as the LP so I suspect it was banged on the upper press when it was removed.

Very disappointing.  How relatively few of these the factory must produce and they send out a defective disc.  I opened probably about 200 LPs during my childhood and never had a single problem with one.  And that was back when the industry was producing LPs by the tens of millions per year.  I don't expect to be buying any more new vinyl.  $70 for Psychedelic Pill?  I will get the CD for $15.

In my experience buying vinyl has always been a bit of a lottery, which imo add's to the fun of the chase; particularly when you find a mint copy of that album you missed the first time a round. However, I do understand that cost can be an issue and I would never recommend anyone starting a vinyl collection from scratch 'no pun intended'. But if you have a significant number of records to build on, it's just the best fun you can have with your clothes on

regards Graham.

Joe,

Psychedelic Pill is one of the only recent vinyl issues that I would strongly recommend; the music is good and was produced analogue throughout. In addition a few of us over here bought it for £18 preordered from Amazon. 

Steve

Thanks Steve!  If it's all analogue, I stand corrected.  Still have get over the sticker shock, though.  I wish I'd bought more Neil Young albums when I was a teen.  He is hard to find now on s/h vinyl.

Yes that's right ... I buy them for one .... Bellowhead give you a CD with the vinyl, which is great as i can spend a couple of hours comparing them and inviting friends around to see if they can hear a difference. 

I have vinyl that is 50 years and sounds great as well.  I love going to a half price records or other used record store and finding gems for only about 4$.  I clean them up on my machine and they sound wonderful, way better than CD ever does IMHO (I know others prefer CD sound and that's fine of course, I don't want to troll here).  It is just the new vinyl that seems to be a crap shoot which is most unfortunate.

onip,

What cleaning process have you found best?  I'm worried about introducing noise into the groove.

Hi Joerand,

I use a vacuum cleaning machine made by Nitty Gritty (the cheapest model).  You turn the record by hand over a vaccum that sucks fluid off of the record that you put on with a brush.  I use a three step process with three different fluids by audio intelligent (enzymatic fluid, super deep cleaner and ultra pure water).  

http://www.audiointelligent.com/products.htm

I really like the audio intelligent fluids, and others prefer other brands, but I do find for me at least that using a record cleaning machine and fluids is the way to go.

I will also endorse the Audio Intelligent fluids. I've been using them for the past 18 months or so.

As far as I'm concerned there are two critical steps to cleaning. 1) Using an ultra-pure water rinse to eliminate any possible cleaning residue as the last step (I don't believe in one-step solutions that aren't rinsed away). I purchase reagent grade ultra pure water 5 gals. at a time. 2) Allow the record enough time to air dry before re-sleeving it. I use 15 mins. as a minimum. You don't want to take the chance of re-sleeving with any moisture that might start mold growth. Mold is the enemy of record collections.

If you do ever encounter mold on records, use a 50/50 solution of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Discard the sleeve and wipe down the jacket with the same solution. Also wipe down the RCM with that solution before resuming regular cleaning.

Also, forgot to mention. The most important tim to clean a record is when it is brand new. It's the mold release compound on a new record that ultimately causes clicks and pops more than anything else. If you don't remove it, then every time you play the record, it gets increasingly bound to the vinyl with friction heat from the stylus. The longer you wait the harder it is to remove and the greater risk of getting clicks and pops.

Since you mentioned sleeves, I need to replace many that have become brown and crinkly or have ripped edges.  BagsUnlimited seems to have some good choices.  I like the MFSL paper/plastic anti-static that originally came with their LPs and they still look like new after 30 years, but I've read that they are difficult to fit in standard LP jackets.  Any thoughts appreciated.

I use MoFi (MFSL) sleeves. They work great for me. Whenever I clean a record it gets a new MoFi sleeve, unless it already has one.

Thanks RT, good to know the MoFi fit.  I'm going to look into cleaning methods as well.  A stylus repair man in my area has suggested water from a handheld shower head as the best way to clean debris from LPs.  Not recommended for all water types, but he said okay for our water here around Seattle.  I may try that method on a few expendable LPs, once I find a means to ensure the labels do not get wet.

 I have 3000 LPs so I don't go cheap on taking care of them. That includes a lot of the $50 45 RPM jazz reissues. I only use ultra pure water. The more pure the water is, the better it acts as a solvent. When I sleeve a record after cleaning I want it to be as squeaky clean as possible.

Glad to know about the MOFI as well, thanks RaceTripper (I also like the idea for getting rid of mold, didn't know that one).  I need to replace some of those old sleeves in my records, too.  And I give a second to the ultra pure water as well.  What you could do is use "regular" water first and then switch to ultra pure water, making its job easier, and less of it per record to spread your dollar. I only used regular water on super dusty or in other ways nasty records, then the three fluid bit did the rest. 

The $60 I pay for 5 gal. of reagent grade water lasts me a year, and I use it liberally as a rinse agent on records. I use regular distilled water to clean my brushes and vacuum wands.

So RT, do you think solutions alone can adequately clean the surface or is it necessary to brush.  I'm very leery of brushes contacting the grooves, but I'm just learning about the mold release powder, and I think A few of my LPs have some left on them.  What's your recommendation there regarding brushes??