Next upgrade

What sort of improvement are you looking for?......Personally I'd try and resist the urge to spend in such (relatively) small increments unless their is an aspect of replay which you are quite unhappy with.  G

Option 4: Downgrade to a NAP200 and stay content with what you got, a nicely balanced system.

Maybe change speakers, don't know the Credos though...

Sell the NDX and get an nDAC.

Second hand 555PS are available at excellent VFM at the moment.

jonnaim

As totemphile says, your current system looks pretty balanced now. The advice I've been given is that once you're tempted to upgrade one component in an already-balanced system that's performing well you are essentially committing to a wider upgrade programme.  That's fine if you have a longer term upgrade plan in mind and the resources to fund it.  If not you could spend money only to disturb the balance and become dissatisfied with system.  

Also, as GraemeH hints at, your budget might be insufficient to give a big enough step up in performance. So unless there's a problem you are trying to fix now, maybe there's some thinking worth doing about where you want to take the system in the longer-term before burning £2.5k.

MDS    

Hi, I agree with Toyemphile, the 200 provides more air and separation especially with the 202 Hicap DR at the expense of the richer more forward 250 presentation... However you may not be minded to do that.. So really it's a case of looking at your sources. With the 202 Hicap DR you are well beyond the capabilities of the NDX output.. Good though it is it ultimately lacks resolution and clarity at this level. Options ? Trade it in for a NDS, quite pricey, or get the NDAC and add a PSU and plug the NDX into it. I find the NDAC / 555PS (though you might want to go in stages) works exceptionally well with the 202 Hicap DR, but... I think you might find it over balanced with the 250, ie too bass rich and slightly relentless.. The NDS is more laid back IMO with slightly flatter dynamics which might balance better with the 250.

I think some home demos are required.. It's the only way to be sure and it's how I arrived at these conclusions for myself.

Simon

If you are happy to look at used you could do an XPS (non DR) and a 282 you should be able to realist £800 to £900 from your 202. This would regain system balance as I feel the 250 should be paired with better than a 202.

For once I would disagree with Simon (sorry Simon!) that the bare NDX is at it's limit in your current system.  I have a bare NDX and the upgrade from 202 to 282 was not subtle and one of the most significant changes (for the better!) I have made.  Most noticable was the increase in resolution.  This is with a 200 powering my speakers. I don't doubt that improvements to the source will improve the system but feel that you will get better value from upgrading the pre, especially with a 250 already In place.

If the 250 works in your system then he cash realised from downgrading probably won't provide enough to make a significant difference in what you can do elsewhere.

So if it were me I would listen to options 1 and 2 with my money being on the 282.

Richard

Richard, interesting point, all I am saying the NDX feeding a DAC/555PS simply provides significant changes to  a bare or PSU'd NDX in terms of PRaT, air, ambience, resolution,  stereo field, texture and dynamics when fed into a 202/HicapDR/200... I have just repeated it to make sure i wasn't imagining  it 

I am sure the 282 brings something different to the table but quite honestly to my ears  you have loads of headroom for source improvement with the 202/hicapDR from the already very capable NDX audio out. To me it is about source first.. If it s not there to start with you can'it reintroduce it in a credible way.

Simon

Simon

Your points are interesting as well!

Where I was coming from is that it is possible to improve the system upstream with a 282 whilst retaining a bare NDX.  When I did this it was one of those Eureka moments, hence my enthusiasm for the 282 and a suitable upgrade for the OP.  For me the system became much more Naim, I suspect my speakers (Spendor A5's) benefit from this more than your ATC's as the Spendors need a kick up the backside to give their best.  On Friday I switched out a 9 year old Hicap 2 for a new DR model this has also brought a further improvement but not as much as the introduction of the 282.

I am sure there are significant gains to be had from upgrading the source as you suggest, now with the NDS we have 2 ways to go.  I find it reassuring that you have found great success with the 555ps and NDAC as this is a good way to upgrade in stages, particularly if pursing good used examples.

All the best

Richard

Richard - I know what you mean about Eureka moments - with Naim equipment - I got that with the following

a) Sorbothanefeet under CDX2 with XPS2

b) NDX feeding NDAC/555PS

c) Adding DR version of Hicap onto 202 - as opposed to other non DR power sources

Simon

In terhms of products that may be upgraded I would guess or is it hope for the upgraded ndac. Can the 202 be run by a supercap? if so the scap could almost certainly be used if there will be a 282 upgrade/replacement.

Hello

I had a very similar system to you two years ago:  NDX, 202,200,NACA5, Epos ES14. It was good but not great.

Following a burglary (ES14s stolen – and my wife forbid replacement standmounts) plus bouts of upgradeitis I have arrived at the following: NDS+TXPS, AR Lunar, 202+Dual TC, 200, TQ Black, B&W 804d

All of the above changes improved the sound (though I still miss the coloration of the ES14s after so many years of listening to them). My Eureka moment was the AR Lunar

The 202/200 in combination with the above is wonderful and all that I find missing is a little bass (so no doubt I will consider a 282 at some stage).  

When I had my NDX the addition of the TXPS improved the soundstage and there was plenty of PRAT, but my 25 year old LP12/Akito/K9 still had more musicality (though less absolute detail).

The NDS added the missing analogue sweetness and gives much more resolution with CD rips and is as good as friends’ *very* high-end analogue system if fed High Resolution files.  

Conclusion 1) is that you need good power supply and source before changing your existing pre/power radically. (Having rejected non-DR versions myself (they were not around when I was buying ) I would recommend DR version given the rave reviews by fellow Naimites)

 Conclusion 2) To my ears not all digital is the same, so I agree with Simon that ‘Source first’ remains the correct upgrade strategy, even in this digital age.

To answer your question – I would suggest

1) Keep your present speakers for now.( Speakers are *so* personal that unless you can fit large floorstanders in your listening room (there are better than 804d – but all substantially larger)– I would go for a (large) standmount if I was allowed!) .

2) Chaepies - add NAPSAC and consider replacing NACA5 (TQ Black is the only cable that I have heard – of several I have tried that ‘beats NACA5 in all aspects)

3) Add a DR-XPS – for a limited but worthwhile upgrade of the NDX.  This will give you time to ponder...

4) ... either NDAC or NPS. Simon preferred the NDX/NDAC vs NDS. I have not tried the comparison – as I was reluctant to buy redundant boxes and ultimately I liked the analogue presentation of the NDS (similar to CDS3 to my ears)

5) ... only then consider changing your pre.

+Powerline to NAP200!

Wait for the new product announcement and then make a decision.

The HiFi show in Vegas starts on the 8th, with a new launch from Naim