HiFi vs Music- a comparison

Good music can be enjoyed on relatively humble equipment, and certainly equipment that does not fall into the category of hi-fi. Superb replay equipment without doubt increases one's enjoyment and appreciation of music.

Most of us here have a certain interest in replay equipment as a means to an end, ie. the enjoyment of music at home. Some people I suspect have an interest in equipment for its own sake. This is not wrong of course, just another interest like being interested in cars or antiques etc.

I suspect that very many people who are very passionate about music have absolutely no interest in hi-fi at all and use very basic equipment at home. Many musicians and composers seem to fall into this category. The conclusion surely is that great replay equipment is the icing on the cake but is not an absolute requirement to allow one to enjoy music at home.

Peter

I have found a lot of help in the Music Room, especially when I asked for some Bach recommendations. Knowing nothing of him at the time, and with so much available, it was something of a minefield. But within 24 hours, I had some super recommendations, and ended up buying about eight of them.

But then again, so many of the posts are interminable lists, with little description, and often by people whose tastes seem to have moved on very little for about 40 years and which hold no interest. I frequently resolve to look and post there a bit more, but after a while I lose interest again. I must try harder!!

Now that I don't buy new hifi any more, and know exactly what I would do if I ever had a few £s spare, the Hifi corner is fairly dull too.

Somehow, the passion seems to be lacking all round - maybe I'm just dull and old, but how you can be passionate about the umpteenth reissue of something that was rubbish in the first place, or the 500th question about how to wire up a hicap I don't know.

Dear Ron,

You make an interesting point.

Historically I used to past far more in the Music Room, and gradually concluded that my passionate love of music was in an area not generally shared, and sometimes I would have to answer my own OP several times for a thread to spark into life. I have one such thread at the moment with six replies on. Three of them are mine ...

I think the Music Room is much less interesting than it used to be. Perhaps that is because my musical tastes don't cross with those of many others here!

I never look at any other Forum, and when I retire from here one day, then I'll only use the internet for Skype, email, and internet radio.

Mind you, if I ever get another car, it will be a classic, such as a 1950s/60s Volvo, and the chief pleasure that will come from it will be keeping it running beautifully. I don't enjoy driving except where there is no time constraint on the journey ...

Thus my replay is for its purpose, and a car would be for its own sake. I see no reason why owning replay kit - especially really good stuff - should not a seen as a fine hobby of itself, just like running a great classic car, or something else nicely designed and made.

ATB from George

George, 

It was your name that instantly came to mind when I tried to think of one soul who appears to have much more passion for the music rather than the gear. The fact that you went from CDS2/52 etc to where you are not, and are not enjoying the music one iota less (and possibly through the ESL quite a bit more!) speaks for that. 

As far as your tastes not being shared by the majority, this may have something to do with your predilection for shellac 78rpms and other forms of Ludditism. 

Dear Ron,

I match the recorded performance to the music on the basis of great musicians playing rather than the type of recording.

I have recordings from 1911 to the last few years. In other words recordings from each era of technique so far.

I have a side interest in the techniques developed by AD Blumlein used from about 1930 and some of it still the basis of modern recording technique. I am also fascinated by good - though not necessarily the most expensive - replay. The ESL are fascinating as speakers that employ a very special phenomenon of transduction.

But once I put music through my replay set, then all else just disappears from my consciousness. I don't find it less enjoyable than live in many ways. My room is comfortable, the system is good enough, and I don't have to be out late!

But a great live concert is still an exciting event for me!

ATB from George 

Ron,

It's not surprising the results are as they are. Both the Naim and Linn forum are obviously going to attract more discussion regarding the 'HiFi' aspects of the equipment compared to PF which has a broader non specific content and the Hoffmann site which is dedicated to 'music'.

I think I can speak for most people on this forum when I say that the main purpose for spending so much money on my system is because of my love for music and the fact I want to listen to it in the best possible quality that I can justify and afford. It's always been music first in my book. It's a joy to listen to LPs I have bought over the last 40-50 years. 

The Music Forum on this site may be a bit limited in it's content but I have picked up some useful information on the What Are You Listening.... and Kuma's LP reissue thread amongst others. I swop recommendations of different music with a number of guys on the forum, including yourself.

In conclusion, I would say if you did a poll of the forum members as to which comes first; Music or HiFi, I think the former would win hands down.

Keep on enjoying the music

Steve

Steve, 

All very true...the What Are You Listening To thread is certainly chock full of very useful recommendations. Yet I wonder- do most forum members prefer to dispense advice instead of to receive it? In the prog rock thread I started some time ago, I sought down maybe 20 of the recommendations-I asked for the advice, and if I had not chosen to act on it, i would have wasted my time and that of those who were gracious enough to respond. 

Ron,

Sometimes it's just knowing what's out there or being reminded of a piece of music you'd ignored in the past or forgotten. Most information I glean indirectly but sometimes I'm asked for advise, say on Blues which is a passion of mine, and I give it freely often knowing the tastes of the contributor from his threads and posts on the forum. This is also a 2-way street. Stu and I still email each other, and apart from personal stuff, it's usually music related. He's very good at digging out the good stuff and I miss his contributions on the forum.

I'm not sure that the distinction is that important. I'm a music lover and a music gear head. I have sites I go to when I want to talk music. The people on those sites could care less about hifi. To them Denon is hi end kit.

People who inhabit this forum are gear heads. Ditto any hi end audio forum. Most are gear heads that love music, but they come here to talk about gear and about how to extract the best performance.

Two separate entities if you ask me.

:-)

Dear Ron,

I know that from the Forum I have had some superb pointers with regard to great recorded performances of music that I already loved. I am always ready to give advice to those setting out on the world of classical music, and always watch the Music Room with a view to offering some friendly starting guidance.  

For me, finding new music was always based on radio listening, or in the early days guidance from school masters.

Nowadays I also find youtube can through up un-suspected treasures!

I don't enjoy or relish discussing relative merits of music or performance, which is quite a hobby for some people I do realise. To me I'd rather spend the time listening to it than discussing it ...

ATB from George

Hi Ron.

Totally understand the tension between kit & music. It's the chicken and egg question, what came first? I suspect that for most people on this Fourm it was music that got them into HiFi. However if you are interested in music reproduction the kit is a very important means to an end  and you will want the best from your investment So questions regarding upgrades, speaker wire, stands to name but a few will always out number music related threads IMO, as new people take advantage of the well of knowledge on here. Therefore I would like to thank guy's like SteveJ, KevinW, George F, Stu who is greatly missed for enchanting my musical life. By the way Steve have you any Bo Diddley recommendations   

Regards Graham.

> But then again, so many of the posts are interminable lists, with little description, and often by people whose tastes seem to have moved on very little for about 40 years and which hold no interest. 

That is a great description of me .... I don't post so much in the music room these days because most people aren't interested in the songs I like - most of the records I buy are from the 60s or 70s or modern groups who would have done well in that era ... 

To be honest I don't see the point of playing Rap and Hip-Hap on high quality equipment - it is surely throw away muzak made for the MP3 generation ... it sounds best with 0 bit resolution to me. Most of it just seems people moaning about themselves and their situation ... it lacks imagination, fantasy, humour and doesn't conjure up any images ... still perhaps I'm not supposed to understand it. 

I just don't think there is much interest on the forum about the Trembling Bells, Bellowhead, Show of Hands or the Smoke Fairies or even Karine Polwart - the newly released music that I buy. 

In 76 and 77 I used to listen to the Radio a lot and hear lots of exciting new music, but that happens rarely now ... though 6 Music's the Freak Zone does cater for old dudes like me. There is something playing now that sounds a bit Robert Calvert and turned out to be Julian Cope. 

I can't add anything to a debate on classical music because I do not know much about it and rarely listen to it these days; I used to listen to more when I was younger. 

So although my music collection is far more valuable than the kit I have ... my posts are more about kit than songs. 

Guy, 

Fortunately we have ways around merely providing names of artists we recommend...I actually took the time to Youtube all of the artists you suggested above...for MY tastes the Smoke Fairies are excellent. I like the slow burn pace of their music. The Bellowhead is just a little too provincial for my particular tastes, yet  can see from the Youtube comments that is of enormous appeal to others. So, do not be shy of shaking some Youtube imbeds. It wasn't that long ago I would have to had to turn to the written word to try to evaluate new (to me) artists. But that massive compromise is simply no longer a restriction. 

+1 on what Ron just said - I have found out about some good stuff on this forum.  It was Stu just recently who mentioned the Sensational Alex Harvey Band, and I was able to go from that and read/listen/view and ultimately, purchase.

It's different for everyone. For me it's all about music. Equipment is just a way of getting to it. So far as the music goes you like what you like and in my case there is less of a tendency to explore other people's tastes, although I have picked up some excellent tips and information from The Music Room. If a thread appears in there on a subject/genre/band that I love I will contribute. For the most part the discussion is not in areas that interest me.

I spend a good amount of time on the SH Forum. It is 100% music (in the Music section) and those guys are "animals" - in the positive sense. It is almost too intense in the amount of information and knowledge one can gleam there. A great source for further research on all types of music - both old and new.

Gregg

There actually was a related poll a little while back

Is it because people prefer listening to Music rather than talking about it and they much prefer talking about Hi-Fi rather than listening to it? 

That can get just as sad - quickly.

One might argue that the moment we start talking about a subject we move away from some "essence" and get embroiled in epiphenomena

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." and burns fewer calories.

yup.  I have a very broad taste in music but have a tendency to listen to one one 'type' more than any other at any particular time.  Sometimes its Opera, at others heavy metal, straight pop, easy listening etc.  Don't feel any need to talk about it to others, and perhaps  be castigated for my taste (or lack of) as others might see it.  Hifi is just a means to an end.

George said:

I don't enjoy or relish discussing relative merits of music or performance, which is quite a hobby for some people I do realise. To me I'd rather spend the time listening to it than discussing it ...

 

are you sure George?  Community rank Nr 10?  I have the impression you love discussing music and recording.  Not that there is anything wrong with that .............

I rarely look at the Music Room or look at the posts of what people

are listening or the concerts they go to.  Hearing from someone

about what group they like means nothing if you don't know the

person, and I need to HEAR music to know if I like it.  So I listen to

Radio Paradise, for example, as a listening sound board.  I have

heard so much music there over the last two years which has

inspired me to learn about the musicians and buy the music.  My

musical tastes have broadened further with that knowledge.

By the same token, I have no interest in sharing in this forum my

likes and dislikes...once or twice maybe.

What this forum does provide is a wealth of information on hi-fi

matters and I have benefited from it greatly.

California Jim

Lord E

 

But then again, so many of the posts are interminable lists, with little description, and often by people whose tastes seem to have moved on very little for about 40 years and which hold no interest. I frequently resolve to look and post there a bit more, but after a while I lose interest again. I must try harder!!

Did I miss the memo about having to move on my musical tastes?  

From personal experience over the years, it's hard not to talk about the equipment when the music  being played doesn't interest you - or worse. Too many dealer demos, events and evenings spent in other people's lounges to count. Some wonderful equipment, some wonderful sounds, but unless I was in the driving seat, a lot of tedious, awful music.

On the very rare occasions that someone steps into our lounge, we positively encourage them to bring or select their own music. The last amp I sold privately the buyer drove a long distance. We had an in depth discussion about the music he wanted to listen to before he came. I had some in the collection and he bought some of his own.

I envy those who can get along with a Denon DM38, and the rest of humanity who just live with iTunes downloads on a phone. But having "become hi-fi" over 15 years ago it is hard to give it up, a real affliction like taking drugs. Tried a couple of times to "downgrade" but it didn't work, it only ruins the musical experience. I've been a musician (not professional though) but wish I'd never gone into a hi-fi shop that first time... ignorance really is bliss