HiFi vs Music- a comparison

Don't be embarrased George, just think where you might have been if you could only have teamed up with that namesake genius Fredrik Fiske who used to frequent this forum !!

Cheers

Don

It takes a lot more than three boxes and a snaic to bring Cliff and The Shadows to life, but take Mrs D to a live (*) concert ..............

Cheers

Don

(*) I know, I know !!

Dear Don

That is even more unfortunate as you do well know. That fellow Fredrik also had a very good Naim system, before ever joining the Forum!

I receive the eminently sagacious  advice to chop out the Castle Harlechs for SBLs, and I [i.e he] was very grateful for many happy years!

Then came a re-registration process for the Forum, and Fredrik was history because the registration failed, and I had to become myself, rather than just half of myself! I have continued to improve my replay in spite of a few [hundred] set backs, and have not yet retired from posting here. Rumbled at last!!!!!

ATB from George Fredrik Fiske J-

PS: I wish that the links to thoe wonderful old threads I put in the Music Room still worked, but unfortunately the links all broke with the arrival of the new platform, and you cannot search Fredrik Fiske as a member any more, as I am one of the "guests" - former members who left or were sacked. That is a bit sad really as there was a lot of work put in on them ...

Ron,

In general, I think most people on this forum ARE more interested in the music than the equipment, even if they talk more about the equipment here on the forum.

I base this proposition on having met and continuing to meet with a large number of forum members.

Cheers

Don 

cheers

Don

Ah yes!! The CDS3, nait 5i, SBL years! I remember them fondly.

Chris

(er, it may have been the next cdp up, but the amp and speakers are right).

Dear Chris,

At one time it was CDS2, 52, 200, SBLs! Then the Nait 5i came, and I loved it very much. So much that I got another when circumstances arrived!

And here is one of my very nice Music Room threads.

Seems the search is now working again, So next weekend, I'll hunt the archive and find the rest and gather them together for the fun of it!

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878604883568

ATB from George

When/Why is someone visiting the Naim forum? I think the cycle goes like this

a) He is doing some research because he is thinking about purchasing some Hi-fi gear

b) He just purchased and has questions about implementation of the new gear

c) The new gear works and he wants to share the excitement or the newly acquired knowledge

d) The hi-fi gear is settled: why not keep exchanging about something else: music, bikes etc. 

e) Back to a)

The forum is also quite entertaining in itself, independently from the topics, as the posts often reveals elements about the psychology of their authors. 

This brings to mind William Boyd's wonderful book Any Human Heart - and the phase in the character's life 'the dog food years'.

All mad I tell you, mad.

And he also wrote 'An Ice-Cream War'. Christ, it's all coming together! George was Boyd's model for Logan!

C.

Hi George - 

I'll make sure to pass along your kind words!

ATB.

Hook

"rather like wanting to be like the popular boy /girl at school. Nothing wrong with agreeing with Derry on that."

Well, let's all remember how fat all those hot cheerleaders are 25 years after the fact!

To me hi-fi gear and music are two distinct entities.

When I'm not obsessing about my hi-fi gear I enjoy listening to music on it.

But to be honest the whole hi-fi thing is basically a pastime/hobby and has very little to do with the music as such. I like hi-fi gear and I like to tweak just for the sake of tweaking.

I also enjoy listening to music on my modest car stereo while driving to work.. I don't even bother fiddling with the tone controls - I did it once or twice when I bought the car and that was it. Upgrading has never crossed my mind either. It's just about driving to the beat of the music.

When I get back home sometimes I listen to music and sometimes I tweak.

Audiophillea is the disease - music is the cure.

First, a comment on Stu whose participation I also miss.  I do not flatter myself that my presence on the forum was in any way the sole proximate cause of his departure, but something I said in one of my posts apparently was, to mix metaphors, the last gasp that broke the camel's back.  It was apparent that Stu does not suffer fools gladly, and it is equally apparent to me that I do sometimes end up playing the fool--whether intentionally at the time or not.  But one day, after one of my posts, he just, as we say in the Southern U.S. "...up and quit on us."  And, while I have not suffered one moment of sleeplessness since, I do regret it.

Personally, I began on the Hi Fi forum seeking advice on an entry-level system, and based largely on that advice--purchased one.  I love music--mainly classical, but  Big Band, Country, and Mexican Con Junto and Mariachi music as well.  I considered Audiolab and MacIntosh as well, and had I ended up with their gear, I no doubt would have loved to hear my music on it.  But it is hard to imagine I would have enjoyed it as much as the Naim gear I eventually bought.  Bart said it best with regard to appreciating the help we get from those who know far more than we do.  And I was one of the folks to whom Bart imparted what he had learned.  Now that I am settled in with the gear, I do look forward to adding to it one day, but the music has become more important to me--especially after having purchased my first downloads, both from Linn, the first a 24/96 recording titled "The Violins of Cremona" and a 24/192 recording of the 3rd, 4th and 5th Beethoven piano concertos.  Oh, my!

Finally, a word about the phenomenon of "upgraditis" and the alleged elite status on the forums of those who have achieved systems valued in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars/pounds sterling.  While lacking sufficient filthy lucre to indulge in such luxuries as the 500 series, Porches, fine British double guns, or (what I really crave) a 72-foot dual diesel sport fisherman (a vessel which would use almost as much fuel as the private jets Al Gore flies around in), I am nevertheless one who, though lacking the means, certainly retains the interest in fine gear of every description--and I fully understand how easy it would be--having the wherewithal--to throw say, a hundred and fifty grand at seeing what a 552 and a couple of 500 s would do for that 24/192 version of Beethoven's Fifth Piano Concerto I already love on my Superuniti.  Possessing fine equipment is--in and of itself--a good thing.  Why else would one own a Rolex when a Timex keeps better time?????  (Oh, wait, they also attract women, I suppose.)

And as for folks who do make it to the top echelons of Naim gear getting the most respect, regard, or whatever on a Naim hardware forum--isn't that just pretty much the same as the men and women with the largest bulges attracting the most interest in pornographic movies?  I'm just saying!

Best regards,

Russ

Preciscely Russ. Well, not quite, especially the "respect" "regard" "or whatever" bits.

I would add :-

Any decent (even half decent) person, would be sensitive to the way he/she flaunted their wealth, however well-deserving they had aquired such wealth and knowing they have every right to dispose of it as they wish. And those who are insensitive to such ugly behaviour no doubt expect and are used to being chastised accordingly.

Cheers

Don

As a long time forum member the most fascinating posts to me have always been those from people who are building systems on very limited budgets, even when I myself used to have a high-end system. Anyone can build an excellent system if they have a large budget to play with, but putting together a superb system on a very limited budget takes real inginuity and is far more interesting to me. A lot can be learned from such posts and speaking for myself my whole perspective on hi-fi has changed both as a result of this and my own experience with downsizing.

Peter

Good observation Peter. I think a majority of us have been there. I certainly have. It could be argued that you can only fully appreciate a top level system if you've built and developed something over time, in many cases decades. This might seem disingenuous if said with a degree of sneering but I think it holds water. Having said that, if I was born rich and loving music as much as I do, I'd dive in at a high level. Why wouldn't I? 

Harry,

Certainly if I had the money to spare to invest in another high-end system and I thought that this would please me then I can think of no reason not to do so.

Having drunk from the cup of high-end audio though, and having through circumstances been forced to downsize to progressively more modest systems, I think I have identified a level of performance that pleases me very much at a much lower price level. I've been up and down the range several times over the years and I'm glad that I've had that experience, if for no other reason than I no longer hanker after very costly equipment - I've been there, got the T-shirt etc. etc.

I agree though that building a high-end system gadually over the years, refining things as you go and slowly working towards your goal (which may change several times over the years) is I think far more likely to get you where you want to be than walking into a dealers with say £30K to spend. It's more fun as well!

Peter

Fun is a word which is not used enough. Maybe we're having so much that we take it for granted.

It's funny how this thread has gone, yet again, into the old 'have/have not' debate. It seems to me that anybody who considers upgrading to the Reference Series is automatically flaunting their wealth and gets castigated for it, usually instigated by the likes of Derry or those who, apparently have downgraded. I was disgusted with some of the comments Peter had to endure during a recent thread. No wonder many of the old brigade have left the forum. I will certainly not be posting any more regarding changes to my system and, if it wasn't for the Music and Photos threads which I enjoy I would probably leave also. It's all become too predictable.

Steve,

I personally have never thought that anyone buying mega-expensive equipment and posting about it was flaunting their wealth. When I bought my CDS3, 252, DVD5, AV2 etc. I posted about it here but I certainly didn't intend to be boastful. I agree though that some forum members seem to dislike the idea of others being able to afford much more expensive equipment than they can, and this is just plain jealousy of course.

Due to my experiences and different aims to those that I previously had I would not buy a 'high-end' system now even if I could afford one. That's just me though, and I fully acknowledge that my aims in replay now are at odds with the majority of people here. There also does seem to exist on the forum a kind of animosity to people like myself who are able to be entirely satisfied with relatively modest equipment. This seems often to come from those that own mega-bucks set-ups, and I'm not really sure why it happens. It seems to upset people that someone can claim to get as much or even more enjoyment from cheaper equipment than from expensive stuff.

I'm almost too embarrassed to list what I have now, and most forum members would probably dismiss it as not even proper hi-fi. I get a great deal of pleasure from it though. One day I will rejoin the ranks of Naim owners with a DAC V1 and Nait 5i-2, but that is some way off. In the meantime although I've said I find posts about budget set-ups more fascinating than expensive ones I'm pleased for those who can afford and enjoy high-end set-ups. I certainly enjoyed mine when I had it, so why should I begrudge anyone else the same pleasure?

Peter

While I know several people with fairly exotic systems, in every single case this has been the result of sacrifices elsewhere....more modest cars and living conditions, vacations never taken and marital dissolutions. The thing about this hobby is that the equipment can give back at least what you have put into it and will do so for many years. Try that with a 30 day cruise! The question then becomes do you get out of it what have put into it, and what you have given up for it. In most cases the answer is yes I think. 

Funny how this thread has gone, indeed...

Folks, it's a pretty broad church here with one common denominator - Naim and the love of music that brought you here.  Personally I feel that whether you have no Naim (but perhaps intend on having something from Salisbury in the future) or a whole house full of it has no bearing on your status here.

This is a place to share your passion.  I can no longer really afford to go all-out with a full active 500 system (if I ever could!) but I'm all for reading about those that can, because I know what an awesome thing that can be.  I rather enjoy seeing the system pics and reading about decisons taken to buy or not buy to reach that next level of uncovering what's on our vinyl, CDs or what have you.  I feel no envy at those who have made the commitment (and often the sacrifice) to spend big on something that is their love.  And I honestly don't think there's anyone here who is less interested in the music than they are in the means to play it.

Bottom line is that if you can't show off your Naim system or your fabulous music collection here, then where??  I say bring it on...

Ron,

When I had my expensive Naim set-up I was very fortunate to be in the position of being able to afford it without really making cut-backs elsewhere. Nowadays my wife and I have gone from this extreme to the other end of the scale!

You are right though that for most people it is a question of how they apportion their money. My wife and I could sell up and buy a much cheaper property and plough the profits into hi-fi. This will not be our choice though, but it may well and perfectly legitimately be the choice of others.

To be honest when I had my expensive set-up I felt short-changed. I didn't feel that I was getting out of it anything like what I had invested. Had our fortunes not changed though I would probably own a 500 series system by now as I was well and truly hooked on the upgrade spiral. I used to spend thousands without giving much thought to it, and my stupidity now disgusts me. A fool and his money and all that....

To come back to the title of this thread Hi-Fi vs. Music. Well, there is still great music at home here but certainly not great hi-fi! One day it will come again for sure, and my experiences have helped to refine my aims so that I'm now confident that my final system will be one that will truly please me.

Peter