HiFi vs Music- a comparison

Posted by: Ron Toolsie on 13 January 2013

I follow four forums that have both Hifi and Music rooms. In three out of the four there are many more postings about hifi than the music. I admit that to truly get emotionally involved in the music it takes both great gear and great music. But at the same time people who are passionate about the gear should also be passionate about the music. It is all well and good for an epicure to obsess over which type of flatware and china plates to scoff the haute cuisine with, but without at least an equal emphasis on the food, it does become rather pointless. 

 

Here are some very rough ratios of Hifi:Music postings between those forums

 

Naim   4:1

PF   1.5:1

Linn (if you group together DS, LP12 and General Hifi threads)  6:1

Steve Hoffman   1:4

 

Now I know that each venue attracts a different subset of people, but I would have expected there to be greater parity between level of interest in the hifi and music dialog. And certainly it is easier to discover new music through discourse than new hifi. 

 

I would have put this in the Music Room, but nobody would have read it  This is not a criticism, merely an observation. Do we care too much about hifi, or too little about music? 

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Hook
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

Funny how this thread has gone, indeed...

 

Folks, it's a pretty broad church here with one common denominator - Naim and the love of music that brought you here.  Personally I feel that whether you have no Naim (but perhaps intend on having something from Salisbury in the future) or a whole house full of it has no bearing on your status here.

 

This is a place to share your passion.  I can no longer really afford to go all-out with a full active 500 system (if I ever could!) but I'm all for reading about those that can, because I know what an awesome thing that can be.  I rather enjoy seeing the system pics and reading about decisons taken to buy or not buy to reach that next level of uncovering what's on our vinyl, CDs or what have you.  I feel no envy at those who have made the commitment (and often the sacrifice) to spend big on something that is their love.  And I honestly don't think there's anyone here who is less interested in the music than they are in the means to play it.

 

Bottom line is that if you can't show off your Naim system or your fabulous music collection here, then where??  I say bring it on...

 

 

+1.  Thanks very much for expressing what I am sure many of us were thinking.

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by pjl2
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

Funny how this thread has gone, indeed...

 

Folks, it's a pretty broad church here with one common denominator - Naim and the love of music that brought you here.  Personally I feel that whether you have no Naim (but perhaps intend on having something from Salisbury in the future) or a whole house full of it has no bearing on your status here.

 

This is a place to share your passion.  I can no longer really afford to go all-out with a full active 500 system (if I ever could!) but I'm all for reading about those that can, because I know what an awesome thing that can be.  I rather enjoy seeing the system pics and reading about decisons taken to buy or not buy to reach that next level of uncovering what's on our vinyl, CDs or what have you.  I feel no envy at those who have made the commitment (and often the sacrifice) to spend big on something that is their love.  And I honestly don't think there's anyone here who is less interested in the music than they are in the means to play it.

 

Bottom line is that if you can't show off your Naim system or your fabulous music collection here, then where??  I say bring it on...

 

+2. No reason for any kind of animosity here at all. We are all fans of Naim equipment and this hobby should above all else be about having as much fun as possible. Sharing our views with each other and discussing what we own is all part of that fun. We are all of equal status here by virtue of the fact that Naim is, or has been, or will be an important part of our lives.

 

Peter

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Quad 33
Originally Posted by pjl2:
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

Funny how this thread has gone, indeed...

 

Folks, it's a pretty broad church here with one common denominator - Naim and the love of music that brought you here.  Personally I feel that whether you have no Naim (but perhaps intend on having something from Salisbury in the future) or a whole house full of it has no bearing on your status here.

 

This is a place to share your passion.  I can no longer really afford to go all-out with a full active 500 system (if I ever could!) but I'm all for reading about those that can, because I know what an awesome thing that can be.  I rather enjoy seeing the system pics and reading about decisons taken to buy or not buy to reach that next level of uncovering what's on our vinyl, CDs or what have you.  I feel no envy at those who have made the commitment (and often the sacrifice) to spend big on something that is their love.  And I honestly don't think there's anyone here who is less interested in the music than they are in the means to play it.

 

Bottom line is that if you can't show off your Naim system or your fabulous music collection here, then where??  I say bring it on...

 

+2. No reason for any kind of animosity here at all. We are all fans of Naim equipment and this hobby should above all else be about having as much fun as possible. Sharing our views with each other and discussing what we own is all part of that fun. We are all of equal status here by virtue of the fact that Naim is, or has been, or will be an important part of our lives.

 

Peter

Well said, Richard, Hook & Peter. Also Steve J in the words of a well known song 'Please Don't Go'.

 

Graham.

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Ron Toolsie

I know that I was hooked after I borrowed a 32/160 one afternoon to try in place of my A60. It was truly a paradigm shift, and did not require 552, 500, DR regs or indeed even external power supplies. There is so much of the DNA of the Reference Series in the entrance level gear that nobody should be any less than thrilled with about any series of electronics that they choose to use. The biggest variable is setup however. I once heard a complete 3-series system with near perfect set up, and I could probably have lived indefinitely with it. We somehow have a compulsion to look ahead one or more steps, instead of taking care of what we already have underfoot. 

 

I can well remember the huge pride of ownership I had when I got a 42/110...which at that time was- short of the Nait,  a bottom feeding system. More to the point, the level of replay advanced so very much more, it hardly mattered where it stood in the Naim hierarchy-just that it was so very much better than what I had been using before. 

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Russ

Don: Agree with your suggestion that "respect" is not something one lavishes on porn stars.  Perhaps "interest" or "attention" would be more appropriate. 

 

"Broad church" pretty much says it in my opinion as a relative newcomer.  If, for whatever reason, one likes a simple system, I think it is perfectly acceptable to say so.  If, on the other hand, one is something of a whore for fine equipment and manages to acquire it--whether by spending their spare change or by starving the grandchildren, I think they too should be able to talk about what they have, what they want, or what they are thinking about.

 

Understood that people can be obnoxious in their display of both flaunting their wealth AND in crying about their lack thereof.  It's pretty obvious when they do.  So ignore them.  Nonetheless, the great majority of people who comment either way seem to me to be sincere.  I guess I just get tired, in my own country, of so much whining that people should apologize for their success.  Yes, we have poverty in the U.S., but somehow, everyone--even the people on food stamps and unemployment payments manage to have a television.  (98 percent have at least one TV and 75 percent have two or more.)  Thus, although I am certainly not one of the evil, undeserving "rich" I get tired of being told I should trip over my own gonads trying to display the politically correct degree of "sensitivity." 

 

Best regards,

 

Russ

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by pjl2
Originally Posted by Ron Toolsie:

I can well remember the huge pride of ownership I had when I got a 42/110..

Me too. It ws my first Naim amp after owning an A&R A60 and it was a quantum leap forwards. I never looked back after that.

 

Peter

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by bluedog
Originally Posted by Ron Toolsie:

I follow four forums that have both Hifi and Music rooms. In three out of the four there are many more postings about hifi than the music. I admit that to truly get emotionally involved in the music it takes both great gear and great music. But at the same time people who are passionate about the gear should also be passionate about the music. It is all well and good for an epicure to obsess over which type of flatware and china plates to scoff the haute cuisine with, but without at least an equal emphasis on the food, it does become rather pointless. 

 

Here are some very rough ratios of Hifi:Music postings between those forums

 

Naim   4:1

PF   1.5:1

Linn (if you group together DS, LP12 and General Hifi threads)  6:1

Steve Hoffman   1:4

 

Now I know that each venue attracts a different subset of people, but I would have expected there to be greater parity between level of interest in the hifi and music dialog. And certainly it is easier to discover new music through discourse than new hifi. 

 

I would have put this in the Music Room, but nobody would have read it  This is not a criticism, merely an observation. Do we care too much about hifi, or too little about music? 

From my own pov there is a very simple explanation: it's great to exchange views on the Naim forum with people (predominantly men of a 'certain age') with whom I have shared a common experience. Yes I remember the thrill of my first 42/110. Yes I vividly remember switching 18 months ago from an 82 to a 52. I love sharing that with you all.

 

However, although I share with George a love of Bach and Haydn, I am baffled by some of his opinions on Wagner. At the same time, I don't necessarily want to get to the bottom of why he holds those views.  Similarly, I wouldn't use this forum to discuss my own love of certain classical composers and 1950's jazz artists. Why? Because I can probably find another forum with a load of people (predominantly men of a 'certain age') who share that particular passion with me.

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Steve J

Well said, Richard, Hook & Peter. Also Steve J in the words of a well known song 'Please Don't Go'.

 

Graham,

 

I'm pleased you didn't use the full title of that song otherwise I'd start to worry.

 

I enjoy the music and photo side of things at the moment to leave and I still have many more recommendations for you.

 

But, if in the future, if I decide to become a further "whore to fine equipment" by spending my children's and grandchildren's inheritance I shan't be mentioning it on this forum.

 

I agree with Richard D's sentiments and wish the forum could be an open celebration of what we're all supposed to be interested in, music and HiFi equipment, but I think this is a Utopian dream in these cynical times.

 

 

ATB

 

Steve

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

Funny how this thread has gone, indeed...

 

Folks, it's a pretty broad church here with one common denominator - Naim and the love of music that brought you here.  Personally I feel that whether you have no Naim (but perhaps intend on having something from Salisbury in the future) or a whole house full of it has no bearing on your status here.

 

This is a place to share your passion.  I can no longer really afford to go all-out with a full active 500 system (if I ever could!) but I'm all for reading about those that can, because I know what an awesome thing that can be.  I rather enjoy seeing the system pics and reading about decisons taken to buy or not buy to reach that next level of uncovering what's on our vinyl, CDs or what have you.  I feel no envy at those who have made the commitment (and often the sacrifice) to spend big on something that is their love.  And I honestly don't think there's anyone here who is less interested in the music than they are in the means to play it.

 

Bottom line is that if you can't show off your Naim system or your fabulous music collection here, then where??  I say bring it on...

 

Agree 100% with every aspect of this. I think most of us, regardless of equipment enjoy the music first and foremost.

 

Cheers

 

Don

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Guido Fawkes

I agree 100% with Richard 

 

There is nothing wrong with buying the best system you can and discussing it with others on the forum ... however, there is equally nothing wrong with having no Naim gear and just offering your views on music and audio. 

 

I once knew a dude with a great Naim system who didn't even like music, his favourite record was Linguaphone's Learn Portuguese V5 and there is nothing wrong with that either .... it has a great beat. 

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Alamanka

I am a member of the Forum Lumpenproletariat (I own a Uniti) but I enjoy reading the comments posted by the UberKlass of 500 owners.  Yet, dancing about architecture is definitely a stimulating idea. 


My political hi-fi consciousness is irremediably alienated.

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Russ
I will also say this about Naim (the company). I have seen it implied on more than one occasion that Naim, in creating and advertising the upgrade philosophy, should somehow be cast in the role of a dope peddler, hanging around a playground, selling crystal meth to little kids for their lunch money. Jesus! They are making and marketing high quality, high priced luxury sound systems. Of course they are going to cultivate the proposition that buying more is better. Surely they lead us all to the trough, but they don't hold our heads under water. Either their urging of the upgrade path has validity or it is pure bullshit. Either way, the Almighty has provided us all with the tools required to evaluate which: EARS! And if our ears tell us that upgrading does result in higher quality sound, then let it be said we are also equipped with another tool with which to evaluate whether any particular increase in sound quality is worth the money: it's called a BRAIN! So let us not blame Naim. It is all about assuming personal responsibility. Best regards, Russ
Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Jan-Erik Nordoen

HiFi vs Music

 

It all went downhill about 40,000 years ago. If memory serves, the conversation went something like this :

 

Barzec : Have you heard Jopalaya singing the wind song ?

 

Ranev : Yes it’s very beautiful, but you really haven’t heard the song unless you’ve heard it on Talut’s instrument of wind.

 

Barzec : Eh ?

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by The Strat (Fender)

Ron,

 

Haven't read the whole thread but I'm not all surprised. The 1st 3 are hi-fi orientated sites the 4th music.

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Alamanka

Dancing about architecture (and other things) - Shobana Jeyasingh Dance Company

 

http://youtu.be/8msbJxGTYak

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Derry
Originally Posted by Russ:
I will also say this about Naim (the company). I have seen it implied on more than one occasion that Naim, in creating and advertising the upgrade philosophy, should somehow be cast in the role of a dope peddler, hanging around a playground, selling crystal meth to little kids for their lunch money. Jesus! They are making and marketing high quality, high priced luxury sound systems. Of course they are going to cultivate the proposition that buying more is better. Surely they lead us all to the trough, but they don't hold our heads under water. Either their urging of the upgrade path has validity or it is pure bullshit. Either way, the Almighty has provided us all with the tools required to evaluate which: EARS! And if our ears tell us that upgrading does result in higher quality sound, then let it be said we are also equipped with another tool with which to evaluate whether any particular increase in sound quality is worth the money: it's called a BRAIN! So let us not blame Naim. It is all about assuming personal responsibility. Best regards, Russ

Bless! Big Brother loves you.

Posted on: 15 January 2013 by Russ

And you, as well, Derry, even were your various critical remarks to amount to His figurative crucifixion:

 

"Father, forgive Derry, for he knoweth not what he doeth."  (It says that in the Bible.)

 

Best regards,

 

Russ

Posted on: 16 January 2013 by Adam Meredith
Originally Posted by Guido Fawkes:
..... his favourite record was Linguaphone's Learn Portuguese V5 . 

I have a Japanese pressing of this - minimal surface noise but I think the lyrics have been altered.

 

I commenced my Hifi Odyssey  an impoverished apprentice boner at the Malahide horse abattoir. Take home pay was two halfpence a month and as much glue as adhered to my boots. They were sticky times.

 

Over three years I assiduously amassed a collection of three records - the outlay representing approximately one half of my disposable income. I was as happy and contented as a dog with two tongues.

 

1972 was to see a change in my circumstances and a generous older man saw promise in this slow-walking youth, enlisted me at the Bar and encouraged me to follow a career in the Law.

 

By 1973 I had stolen enough money from him to buy my first record player and, a year later, I added amplifier and speakers.

 

Today, as I bask in the Kryptonic glow of 42 Naim boxes, I wonder "Was I not happier when music was a promise, a bud unflowered, a mewling kitten or the Christmas smell of roller-skates?"

 

In honest truth, the answer escapes yet stalks me through the footfall-filled vaults of Fortress  Solitude - shouting the emptiness of possession and questioning all I have become.

 

Were someone to resolve this ancient, cosmic antinomy, perhaps the world could be a better place.

 

I look to this thread with hope and gratitude.

Posted on: 16 January 2013 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by Adam Meredith:
Originally Posted by Guido Fawkes:
..... his favourite record was Linguaphone's Learn Portuguese V5 . 

I have a Japanese pressing of this - minimal surface noise but I think the lyrics have been altered.

 

I commenced my Hifi Odyssey  an impoverished apprentice boner at the Malahide horse abattoir. Take home pay was two halfpence a month and as much glue as adhered to my boots. They were sticky times.

 

Over three years I assiduously amassed a collection of three records - the outlay representing approximately one half of my disposable income. I was as happy and contented as a dog with two tongues.

 

1972 was to see a change in my circumstances and a generous older man saw promise in this slow-walking youth, enlisted me at the Bar and encouraged me to follow a career in the Law.

 

By 1973 I had stolen enough money from him to buy my first record player and, a year later, I added amplifier and speakers.

 

Today, as I bask in the Kryptonic glow of 42 Naim boxes, I wonder "Was I not happier when music was a promise, a bud unflowered, a mewling kitten or the Christmas smell of roller-skates?"

 

In honest truth, the answer escapes yet stalks me through the footfall-filled vaults of Fortress  Solitude - shouting the emptiness of possession and questioning all I have become.

 

Were someone to resolve this ancient, cosmic antinomy, perhaps the world could be a better place.

 

I look to this thread with hope and gratitude.

The story of life Adam, the story of life.

 

Your move to France was clearly not in vein.

 

Cheers

 

Don

Posted on: 16 January 2013 by Adam Meredith
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Your move to France was clearly not in vein.

And yet I attempt to remain sanguine.

Posted on: 16 January 2013 by Christopher_M

 

C.

Posted on: 16 January 2013 by Kevin-W

On a side note, I sold a load of old 7" singles last week on eBay. Guess which one made the most money?

 

A 1970s DG stereo test record...

Posted on: 16 January 2013 by count.d
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
 

The story of life Adam, the story of life.

 

Your move to France was clearly not in vein.

 

Cheers

 

Don

It is the story of life. I look forward to Adam's book coming out.

Posted on: 16 January 2013 by Jay Coleman

Adam's writing a book?

Posted on: 17 January 2013 by tonym

Those clever people at Naim have been very cunning. All their kit sounds great and I can generally tell the sound of it from most other manufacturers' kit. Then as I've gone up the ladder (although I admit to starting fairly high up the rungs) the sound's got better and even more enjoyable. I play more music. How do they do it? If, as happened recently, I sent a component of my system off for an upgrade and substituted a lesser component, it didn't sound so good or enjoyable. Amazing.

 

I'm one of the "fool and his money are soon parted", "more money than sense" brigade (the logic of these sayings doesn't stand up to much scrutiny, does it?) with a full-blown, top-of-the-range active Naim amplification and speaker system. I like to think, should I be forced by circumstance to sell it & go down to something lesser, I'd still aspire to getting a similar system back again and wouldn't drip on about how much better my lesser system sounds than my previous one, nor snipe at those more fortunate than me in life's lottery.

 

Being crass and insensitive to the feelings of others I shall continue to post about my system and politely comment on those of other folk. Can't say I've ever seen a post from one of us elitist, 500-owning forum members that just boasts about their system, but I know lots of hi-fi friends with relatively modest systems who enjoy reading about systems big and small, expensive and cheap (ish) who don't drag round the baggage of envy that some here carry.

 

A suggestion; for those who're offended by us posters who like to discuss their high-end Naim systems perhaps we should have a members-only restricted subsection? 

 

If this posting of mine offends, well, frankly dear, I couldn't give a damn.