HiFi vs Music- a comparison

Well put Tony.

+1 Tony.

I agree that Tony should be placed in a secure place...

Was babysitting my Goddaughter's 18-month old boy yesterday morning.  His favorite new toy is his Baby Einstein "Take Along Tunes":

Much to my surprise, after listening to him "sing" at the top of little lungs for about 30 minutes (while simultaneously keeping "time" using a large plastic spoon hitting the back of a metal mixing bowl), I came to the conclusion that the BE-TAT is much more musically communicative than my NDS/555PS/552/300/400 setup, and so I will be immediately shifting all of my Naim gear.

The BE-TAT features:

I've sold my system and started humming tunes.

Tony,

    could easily set up a "500 club" and only admit members who own components from that range !!

Hi Osprey -

After months of walking on eggshells, being oh so careful not to offend those who own entry-level systems, what exactly did you expect?  How many guys with high-end systems no longer post here at all?  Do you enjoy the lack of diversity?  I do not.

Do you want this to become another PFM, where a small minority of absurdly vocal members dominate the entire forum?  IMO, that's exactly where we are heading.

The only thing that surprises me is that we had to wait this long for the owner of a high-end system to say piss off.

Hook

PS - I only responded to you because I have enjoyed reading some of your posts, and consider you a contributor to this forum.  I refuse to engage certain others who, IMO, contribute ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to this forum.

I like to think that this is an inclusive and tolerant forum.  No special favours however much you may or may not have spent on Naim over the years.

However, it's important to know this; if I feel that any member is pushing a particular agenda here - particularly with the aim of damaging the good and hard earned name of Naim - they will suddenly find themselves unwelcome and their posting rights removed.  If you feel it your mission to save the members from themselves (or indeed Naim) then I would suggest you find something more constructive to fill your day.  We're all grown ups (mostly) and by now we should know what our responsibilities are - to ourselves, our families and to each other.  Perhaps a little more respect wouldn't go amiss.  It's your forum but it's Naim's house. 

Well said Tony & Hook.

I have no 500 kit, but would love to join the club. So you guys with hi end Nain systems please, please, keep posting. Try to ignore the minority of members on here with a poverty of ambition to understand why 'we' and you aspire to own top end Naim. This forum will be diminished and devalued if we no longer can hear your views, criticisms, and love for the MUSiC, via  systems some of use on here including me have never even heard, but join in your love of the unique Naim sound.

Regards Graham.

Can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Derry, although the thread seems to have diverted to whether people show off or not. Actually, given the value of Naim's products, I find most people on this forum humble with their wealth. 

Richard,

I am a lttle puzzled and concerned by your comments. As you may remember I do not own any Naim kit at present due to financial constraints, but as a confirmed 'Naimite' I would go out tomorrow and buy some if I could afford to!

Now for example I have often expressed the sincere opinion, based purely on my own experience, that the Nait 5i-2 is musically superior to many of the more costly pre/power combos. I know that you and many others strongly disagree here, but I am certainly not alone in this belief. Based on this I would always advise a prospective amp purchaser to audition the Nait 5i-2 before opting for a more expensive option. This does not mean that I think the more expensive options are no good, but simply that IMO the Nait 5i-2 is an exceptionally fine ampilfier and exceptional value for money, even at several times its price. I have never claimed that the Nait 5i-2 is comprehensively better, because the more costly options very clearly do the 'hi-fi' stuff better, and will be a better choice for driving difficult power-hungry speakers.

So where do I stand? I do not feel that I am pushing any agenda by recommending an entry-level product over more expensive ones simply because I genuinely believe in its virtues. I have often advised people to consider cheaper upgrade options because I find that many simple and relatively inexpensive systems have a certain 'something' that more costly and complex systems sometimes lack. Again based purely on personal experience.

I have absolutely nothing against people spending their own money as they see fit, and if they see fit to buy £50K plus of hi-fi gear then that's fine. However I would always express my own belief that an equal or perhaps even better musical performance can be had for very much less outlay, though the more expensive systems obviously create a much more believable illusion of reality.

So I guess I'm asking where the line will be drawn - I'd hate to lose my posting rights and it would be rather ironic to do so for championing a Naim amp!!

Peter

As a new-comer to the forum I’ve found that on the whole most contributors seem to be constructive and helpful to others.  On occasion some can be a little terse or dismissive of others’ choice of kit or subjective evaluation of kit but I usually put that down to the general characteristic email/instant texting through which some bang out replies in haste and in a style which they would probably never do in a face-to-face conversation. 

For the most part I think the forum enables contributors to share a common passion, music  and hi-fi.  And regardless of what system you can or choose to afford that must be a good thing surely?  Most pleasures in life are usually enhanced when the enjoyment can be shared with others.  As a footie fan I can enjoy watching a game on my own in front of the telly. But I know I enjoy it more if in watching it I have the company of friends or family who also have a passion for the game; and still more if I’m at the game itself with thousands of others.  I think this forum can and does provide a similar means of sharing and enriching the enjoyment of music and hi-fi systems. So, you ‘senior’ reference system owners, please don’t become disenchanted by the occasional sharp views of a small minority and continue to share your enthusiasm,  enjoyment and frustration with everyone else.

MDS

Peter, you're fine.  Don't worry. Wasn't aimed at you or anybody in particular. 

Many thanks Richard.

Peter

Unfortunately the other Peter is not fine - he's left the forum which saddens me greatly as he was a truly enjoyable read.

I find it disgraceful that a member of the forum who was simply soliciting information on the next upgrade to his system could feel so antagonised for his good fortune/careful monetarism/hard work that he has had to leave the forum.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

This is very sad news indeed and Peter will be a great loss. I would therefore like to thank Peter for his thoughtful, considered, erudite contribution to this forum and maybe ask him to reconsider his decision to leave. Take care Peter.

Regards Graham.

HiFi vs Music (Take 2)

It all went downhill about 40,000 years ago. If memory serves, the conversation went something like this :

Barzec : Have you heard Jopalaya singing the wind song ?

Ranev : Yes it’s very beautiful, but you really haven’t heard the song unless you’ve heard it on Talut’s instrument of wind.

Barzec : Eh ?

Ranev then patiently explained how Talut’s flute made of bone allowed the wind song to sound even more beautiful (obviously he was unaware of the superior flutes made of wood from the rare afromosia tree).

Barzec was intrigued and so Ranev invited Talut to demonstrate.

As they sat enjoying the wonderful sound, Jopalaya, returning from her morning swim, heard the song and approached. Standing before the men, sarong clinging to moistened body, she began to sing. Talut’s hand trembled and the flute slipped from his fingers. Jopalaya smiled.

Hi Hook,

I shall keep my post brief in order to avoid stepping on any toes (after all Richard already gave his general warning). But since you replied to me I feel that I have to make some kind of comment.

Please be assured that I definitely like to read descriptions also about the high end systems. The engineer inside me is curious how things work (that is why the way Naim is publishing their white papers satisfies me a lot – not all manufacturers bother) and it is nice to hear also personal level experiences. In the seventies I used to borrow Hifi catalogues from the local library in order to find out what was out there although most of the equipments were not available where I lived let alone could I ever have had any means to acquire those.

Please be aware also that I have great respect for your knowledge in this field. I would even say that you and Tony Russell where the main reason that I have the Amadeus at the moment without your contributions I might have ever come across to the WTL brand. You also recommended the great book of “Get Better Sound” by Jim Smith which I find very interesting. So I hope that your interest in this forum will stay in the level that you are able to continue contributing and sharing your experience – I certainly hope so in spite of my some maybe not so well formulated inputs every now and then.

All the best!     

As one of a local group of Naimees who have met through this forum, a comment or two.

Several of this group who have "500" system have not surprisingly have large and expensive houses too, some expensive cars as well. When I visit I listen and I like what I hear, but have found that when getting back home my more modest system gives me superb sounds as well, no way I'm jealous of the HiFi, now the houses and cars that's a horse of a different feather. 

In the bigger scheme of things even those with entry level systems still have an audio system , many times the value of 90+% of the general public's systems, so maybe we are all the elite. I know many people I have spoken to just go blank if prices of even entry level pieces are mentioned.

Chaps

What a brilliant thread, this is what hifi fora is all about.

Anymore like this and a few of us old geezers could be tempted to return.

Regards and congrats

Mick

I've seen that done on other fora regarding other luxury-good type items, and it either doesn't work or worse backfires.  Those who want to read will read, those who don't, won't, and those who want something to complain about will always find something to complain about!

I'm baffled by this seemingly sudden division between those with high-end systems and those with more modest ones. This has never happened before, at least not so overtly, so I'm at a loss to understand what's going on.

When I owned a relatively high-end system I didn't feel any kind of division between myself and those with far more modest set-ups. Having had over 25 years of experience with Naim equipment at home at varying levels I am always keen to offer the benefit of my experience and thoughts to others, even if they do not always agree with my views. I have learned an awful lot from those who have put together systems on an extremely tight budget and now that I am in that position myself I have been able to put that knowledge to excellent use. Now that I own an extremely modest set-up I still don't feel any division between myself and those with mega-bucks systems.

Surely we are all in the same game - the business of enjoying music at home. Whether one owns a little all-in-one Denon system with Eclipse speakers as I now do, or whether one owns a full active 500 series system, we can all continue to learn from one another. When I have the funds to return to Naim I know that I'll be much better placed to put together a system that pleases me due to the knowledge gleaned from here.

There will always be those people who are jealous of those with more than themselves, and also people with more who look down on those with less. Thankfully I have never felt that this forum was populated by such people.

Peter

I enjoy reading about the high-end systems as long as the discussions provide insight as to how the system or component improves the musical experience. This is too rarely the case. Naim at all levels will let you understand the internal structure and organisation of music, but the understanding deepens as you go up the range. It would be really useful if those of you way up at the top there were a little more - uh - creative in you descriptions, or maybe you're just too blissed out to even feel like going near a keyboard. Understandable, but perhaps the cause of some perceived aloofness ?

Amitiés,

Jan

Owners of well-sorted budget systems arguably have the last laugh because they are getting their musical enjoyment at a fraction of the cost of high-end kit.

Naim kit is aspirational. It's human nature to want to climb the tree if one can. Having reached the higher branches, the view is arguably better, but if one stays there, the view becomes the norm.

I'd own a more expensive car if I could afford one, but for no logical reason really.

I consider my real luxury to be a detached house which allows me the freedom to use as much volume as I like, day and night.

John.