Some adventures with a Mac Mini, DAC and NDX

Posted by: BrendanD on 09 February 2013

Hi,

Just thought I'd share my experiences of moving on from my CDX2/XPS2 to a computer-based source. The rest of my system is 202/HiDR/200/Ovator S400 with Hiline and Powerlines.

 

I've been thinking of doing this for a while but looking at a used HDX got me seriously thinking about alternatives. After some reading I bought a used NDAC and a Mac Mini 2012 (16GB/256GB SSD/500GB HD) with a chord Toslink. I started with the XPS2 on the DAC, but had an offer of a 555PS at a very good price, so swapped to that.

 

I started experimenting with optimising the Mini. Its actually VERY quiet in operation, and I run no software other than for music, with all notifications, updates etc off. The OS is on the SSD and the iTunes Library on the HD. iTunes has equalisation turned off and all CDs are ripped to AIF. It sounded quite good, but a little 'forward'. Next up was Audirvana 1.4, a distinct improvement in tone and clarity. Fairly happy and already better than my CDX2.

 

This weekend I've had an NDX on loan to play around with in combination with the Mac + allegro server and the XPS/555PS +/- DAC. Interesting.... Some observations using a mix of Jazz, rock, electronic and industrial (no classical).

1. Compared to the Mini>DAC/555PS the NDX>DAC/555PS sounded less 'bright' and a bit more relaxing, but a bit lacking in openness and space. Not so much better, just 'different'. Made me realise how good the Mini>DAC is.

2. Next tried NDX/555PS alone. Quite a step backwards, closed in and less detailed. definitely no good for me.

3. Finally tried NDX/XPS2>DAC/555PS really hoping that it would be no better, as I'm not hugely keen on a 4-box source.. Ohhh. As smooth and relaxed as 1, but the sense of rhythm and space, that 'window' was back open again.... definitely the best.

 

So now I have a dilemma. I've got a used NAP300 on the way and am looking for a 282 or 252/SC to complete the upgrade, so that will be 8 boxes.... plus I have to spend a couple of thousand on an ex-dem NDX and don't get to sell on the XPS2. So thats 5k on used gear, when a new NDS is not much more and replaces three boxes with one.... It does seem that the NDX CAN be very good, but needs two power supplies and a DAC to give of its best. Even if the NDS was no better, it would be preferable. Of those who have traded up, am I right?

 

PS - I'm using the Mini as a server whatever as I'm used to iTunes for ripping and its an all mac house. However try as i might I can't get nStream working - maybe to do with my BT home hub :-(

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by james n

I'll leave the box comparisons to others but get rid of Allegro - it's crap. Use playback as the UPnP server if you're sticking with iTunes.

 

James

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by Guido Fawkes

Use an Airport Extreme for wireless and eliminate the BT home hub ... nStream worked OK for me when i used it this way.

 

NDX with PSU is a very big expensive streamer ... if you like it why not, but not for me ... no DSD  

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by engjoo
It is really serious money to use NDX+XPS without its DAC. Would it make sense to use a ND5XS+XPS instead ?
Posted on: 10 February 2013 by jobseeker

I don't know what you've got your Homehub set to for wireless, but I had NStream problems using dual band 40 MHz setting. Going back to single band with WPS2-only encryption cured them

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by BrendanD

Thanks everyone.

I previously preferred a CDX2 to a CDS3, and being more into electronic music and rock rather than female vocal and classical may explain that....

I've been listening to my NDX/XPS2>DAC/555PS trial today and I have to say its really growing on me :-) A nice balance of dynamic and not trying TOO hard...

Since I have all I need, bar taking up an option on a lightly used NDX, I may just have to get used to the box count!

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Massimo Bertola
Originally Posted by james n:

I'll leave the box comparisons to others but get rid of Allegro - it's crap. Use playback as the UPnP server if you're sticking with iTunes.

 

James

Playback is excellent software, but I have discovered - on both a MacMini and a MacBook Pro - that the Squeezeserver 7.7.2, totally free, works equally well, is totally free of the need of special settings and makes a Mac perfectly visible on UPnP with no fuss.

This with a Pinnacle Soundbridge, a Revo iBlik, a Pure Evoke Flow.

M.

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Stefan Vogt
Thanks, Max,
I'll give it a try! Or are you excluding naim streamers from your list?
Best,
Stefan
 
Originally Posted by maxbertola:
... This with a Pinnacle Soundbridge, a Revo iBlik, a Pure Evoke Flow.

M.

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Eloise
Originally Posted by maxbertola:
Originally Posted by james n:

I'll leave the box comparisons to others but get rid of Allegro - it's crap. Use playback as the UPnP server if you're sticking with iTunes.

Playback is excellent software, but I have discovered - on both a MacMini and a MacBook Pro - that the Squeezeserver 7.7.2, totally free, works equally well, is totally free of the need of special settings and makes a Mac perfectly visible on UPnP with no fuss.

This with a Pinnacle Soundbridge, a Revo iBlik, a Pure Evoke Flow.

It's a bit trickier to setup, but also worth trying MinimServer...

 

It work especially well if you have a lot of classical and take some time to set up good tagging.

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Massimo Bertola
Originally Posted by Stefan Vogt:
Thanks, Max,
I'll give it a try! Or are you excluding naim streamers from your list?
Best,
Stefan
 
Originally Posted by maxbertola:
... This with a Pinnacle Soundbridge, a Revo iBlik, a Pure Evoke Flow.

M.

I have no Naim streamer, so far, but since UPnP is a standard protocol I can't see why Squeezeserver should not work on Naim.

 

Max

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by BrendanD

Interesting, came back home this evening and put the CDX2 back in.

Not quite as detailed, but very very close. However it had a much more musical feel, which I put down to better timing.

I got my wife in, who is a really into darkwave and EBM, put a favourite CD of hers (In Strict Confidence-Holy)  on the CDX2/555PS, the  NDXetc and the Mini/DAC/555PS. She liked the CDX2 and the Mini/DAC, thought the Mini/DAC was a little more detailed and clearer, but that the the NDX/XPS2>DAC/555PS was 'slow' and the vocal not keeping pace with the rhythm. She's right... So looks like I'll be sticking with the Mac/DAC and putting the cash into a better preamp ;-)

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Naimiac
Originally Posted by BrendanD:

the NDX/XPS2>DAC/555PS was 'slow' and the vocal not keeping pace with the rhythm. 

Really an interesting phenomenon, defying all natural laws considering it's recorded data. I mean, are single bits relating to vocals only passed by by those of instruments, like cars in a queue?

Nothing personal, but this subjectiveness of impression is slowly approaching fantasy.

When will someone begin to write that the Sun's rotation around the Earth makes shadows so beautiful?

N.

Posted on: 12 February 2013 by BrendanD
Originally Posted by Naimiac:
Originally Posted by BrendanD:

the NDX/XPS2>DAC/555PS was 'slow' and the vocal not keeping pace with the rhythm. 

Really an interesting phenomenon, defying all natural laws considering it's recorded data. I mean, are single bits relating to vocals only passed by by those of instruments, like cars in a queue?

Nothing personal, but this subjectiveness of impression is slowly approaching fantasy.

When will someone begin to write that the Sun's rotation around the Earth makes shadows so beautiful?

N.

No, not at all fantasy. The human auditory and visual systems are 'systems' with a very high degree of signal processing applied at all levels from nerve receptor to brain. Music is a highly perceptual and emotional response based on this system, and we are incredibly sensitive to timing, some individuals to a degree that defies the limits of physical measurement.

It is naive to think of the human system as merely a physical measurement device, it is far above it.

Posted on: 12 February 2013 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by BrendanD:
......and we are incredibly sensitive to timing, some individuals to a degree that defies the limits of physical measurement......

How do they measure that?

Posted on: 12 February 2013 by Bart
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
Originally Posted by BrendanD:
......and we are incredibly sensitive to timing, some individuals to a degree that defies the limits of physical measurement......

How do they measure that?

Empirically   As in, "that stuff sounds better than that other stuff to me."  (I'm not being facetious!)

 

Posted on: 12 February 2013 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
Originally Posted by BrendanD:
......and we are incredibly sensitive to timing, some individuals to a degree that defies the limits of physical measurement......

How do they measure that?

Empirically   As in, "that stuff sounds better than that other stuff to me."  (I'm not being facetious!)

 

But if the timing difference is unable to be measured, how do they know that there is one at all, and if there is, that it the timing difference is what is making the difference to the listeners' preference. It just makes no sense.

Posted on: 12 February 2013 by Zinger
Honestly, at the price of running a 4 box solution of NDX/XPS2 + DAC/555PS, I would rather go for NDS/555PS assuming they sound comparable to your ears.  From a pure box count and minimizing redundant parts (and also saving on power cords) perspective, the latter just looks more sensible. The former solution was "the best" before only because the NDS wasn't out yet
Posted on: 12 February 2013 by BrendanD
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
Originally Posted by BrendanD:
......and we are incredibly sensitive to timing, some individuals to a degree that defies the limits of physical measurement......

How do they measure that?

Empirically   As in, "that stuff sounds better than that other stuff to me."  (I'm not being facetious!)

 

But if the timing difference is unable to be measured, how do they know that there is one at all, and if there is, that it the timing difference is what is making the difference to the listeners' preference. It just makes no sense.

Does this make more sense....?

http://phys.org/news/2013-02-h...ainty-principle.html

 

I'm just a simple clinical doctor, but I do know the human machine is capable of some incredible feats and is more complex than a simple 'mechanistic model'....

Posted on: 14 April 2013 by djs1784
 
 
Hi,
I just added  Naim DAC and switched my xps2 from HDX ( i have for few years )  to the DAC. Hi-Iine to the 252 with supercap and I have 250-2 amp. Naim PL's on the PS units and the amp. I have SL2's and nSub in medium size room with some professional grade room treatments.
I am not good at describing the musical differences but artists' emotional intent  is my holy grail and I listen to music suited for that experiance. the DAC took me a big clear step closer.
I use airplay with airport expresses and homeshare set up with bunch of mac computers libraries -wife and kids. I can pull up with iPhone remote app any library and playlist and play it in selected zones including outdoors. Today I added one aiirport express with toslink to the DAC and was taken by how great the lossless music  coming over wifi from a mac laptop drive sounds. I am sure I can get a better toslink and tweak some settings , and yes,  the same song ripped on hDX is a different universe,  but for US $100 connection, this is pretty amazing. My kids download music to their tastes and I can easily share in that experience without big production.
As far as future of my set up goes, i am not sure. As I move to downloads from buying CD's and ripping them twice - HDX and itunes, what path to take? I am locked in iphones, ipads, mac OS at home and work and for family members. I love Naim sound and Naim and Mac is not a marriage made in heaven. After 4 years I still cannot get the HDX to see mac based shares. Naim rep gave up too. 
Ideally i would replace the hDX with server streamer that supports airplay and HD downloads. But what?
 
 
 
and Originally Posted by BrendanD:

Hi,

Just thought I'd share my experiences of moving on from my CDX2/XPS2 to a computer-based source. The rest of my system is 202/HiDR/200/Ovator S400 with Hiline and Powerlines.

 

I've been thinking of doing this for a while but looking at a used HDX got me seriously thinking about alternatives. After some reading I bought a used NDAC and a Mac Mini 2012 (16GB/256GB SSD/500GB HD) with a chord Toslink. I started with the XPS2 on the DAC, but had an offer of a 555PS at a very good price, so swapped to that.

 

I started experimenting with optimising the Mini. Its actually VERY quiet in operation, and I run no software other than for music, with all notifications, updates etc off. The OS is on the SSD and the iTunes Library on the HD. iTunes has equalisation turned off and all CDs are ripped to AIF. It sounded quite good, but a little 'forward'. Next up was Audirvana 1.4, a distinct improvement in tone and clarity. Fairly happy and already better than my CDX2.

 

This weekend I've had an NDX on loan to play around with in combination with the Mac + allegro server and the XPS/555PS +/- DAC. Interesting.... Some observations using a mix of Jazz, rock, electronic and industrial (no classical).

1. Compared to the Mini>DAC/555PS the NDX>DAC/555PS sounded less 'bright' and a bit more relaxing, but a bit lacking in openness and space. Not so much better, just 'different'. Made me realise how good the Mini>DAC is.

2. Next tried NDX/555PS alone. Quite a step backwards, closed in and less detailed. definitely no good for me.

3. Finally tried NDX/XPS2>DAC/555PS really hoping that it would be no better, as I'm not hugely keen on a 4-box source.. Ohhh. As smooth and relaxed as 1, but the sense of rhythm and space, that 'window' was back open again.... definitely the best.

 

So now I have a dilemma. I've got a used NAP300 on the way and am looking for a 282 or 252/SC to complete the upgrade, so that will be 8 boxes.... plus I have to spend a couple of thousand on an ex-dem NDX and don't get to sell on the XPS2. So thats 5k on used gear, when a new NDS is not much more and replaces three boxes with one.... It does seem that the NDX CAN be very good, but needs two power supplies and a DAC to give of its best. Even if the NDS was no better, it would be preferable. Of those who have traded up, am I right?

 

PS - I'm using the Mini as a server whatever as I'm used to iTunes for ripping and its an all mac house. However try as i might I can't get nStream working - maybe to do with my BT home hub :-(