Not really a Naim issue but help !!!

Posted by: IanG on 10 February 2013

After somewhat dubious performance I finally bit the bullet and decided to replace my BT Homehub with an Apple AirPort Extreme. My ND5XS and n-Stream are working superbly, faster than ever. However, this is the problem....

 

i've been running PlugPlayer on a couple of iDevices to connect my QNAP NAS running Twonky to the devices which are mounted on docks in various locations around the house.

 

i cannot get these to run consistently. The connection to Twonky is slow and IF I ever do get them to play it is rendered unlistenable by frequent dropouts.

 

The AEBS is hard wired to my NAS via. Netgear gigabit switch.

 

Everything else is working at a decent speed and wifi signal seems strong all round the house. I'm at a loss what to do. I'm wondering if there is a box I need to tick in the NAS/Twonky/AEBS/Plugplayer setup.

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by garyi

OK, not massively clear but I think you mean:

 

You have a BT Homehub

Connected to this an Airport extreme

Connected to this directly a NAS

Around the house some of them god awful plug things to connect various network devices.

 

You are experiencing issues.

 

My first question would be exactly what you have done regards the home hub and new router, if things have not been done correctly you are in a world of pain.

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by IanG
Thanks for the response. World of pain is correct ! Ok. To make things clearer..... I have replaced my BT HH3 with an AirPort Extreme. The HH3 is no longer in use. After doing that, all seemed well until I came to use my daughters iPod on her docking station. It would play Internet radio using Tune In but we could not get PlugPlayer to stream from my QNAP NAS. It could see Twonky but not stream it. This appeared to be due to a poor signal so, I invested in an Airport Express to extend the signal to the top half of the house. We now have a great signal all over the house but PlugPlayer still won't work consistently. Just before your post, all my wireless devices stopped working. The Airport Utility showed that my Extreme had disappeared. I've just rebooted (unplugged) that and all seems to be well again (apart from PlugPlayer). At the moment, the HH is close to being reinstalled and the apple devices skipped. The HH wasn't great but worked better than this. I'm sure there is a simple solution to this but I'm not seeing it. All the hardwired systems are working fine. Any help WILL be gratefully received.
Posted on: 10 February 2013 by garyi

Right. are you on infinity?

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by IanG
Yes. I am.
Posted on: 10 February 2013 by IanG
I was getting slow download speeds both wired and wireless. Speed test showed that the line speed was as per contract so I figured the HH was the problem. I read good things about the Apple products so decided on a change. Just at the moment it seems like money wasted. Am considering returning the HH to service but using the Airports for wireless.
Posted on: 10 February 2013 by garyi

No it will be ok, however out the box the airport will have different ip pools than you bt hub, did you have any of your kit with set ips?

 

If no, my next port of call would be dns, cannot recall if the airport allowed it To be set.

 

my expertise with airports is limited, i had one in the past but a long time ago.

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by IanG
I don't think I had static IP's. I've already checked and everything seems to have picked up a new one from the airport. To stress, everything "works" in that wireless and wired things connect to the Internet e.g. iDevices, Sky Box, Xbox. My streamer is hardwired to the NAS via a switch and that is working better than ever with n-Stream. The one thing that isn't working is PlugPlayer on a couple of iPods. One is in the next room to the router. That worked fine with the HH but not with the Airport. The other in my daughters room was a bit patchy which we put down to poor wifi signal but doesn't work at all now. We have had them working since installing the Airport but not very well. It is as though there is a tick missing in a box but I don't know where to start. The NAS, Twonky or the Airport set up or PlugPlayer itself. It's not a disaster just frustrating. The complete loss of the Airport (even though the green light was still on) which was only rectified by powering down didn't help the feeling of doom tonight. I've been wrestling with it most of the weekend ! Not sure what you mean with the DNS thing. Can you elaborate ? Thanks.
Posted on: 10 February 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Just a thought what frequencies have you selected on your Airport wireless, assuming you have 802.11n have you got both frequencies selected. (5GHz and 2.4GHz.) 5 GHz is less crowded but doesn't go through walls and floors as well.

 

Simon

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by IanG
Hi Simon, I didn't specify frequencies during the set up so I assume its running dual band. Can this be switched to just one frequency ? As I say, the thing that is puzzling me is I have a good signal strength all over the house but cannot stream FLAC to these devices.
Posted on: 10 February 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi from memory the frequencies are in the Airport setup...

Some questions....

1. The FLACs you are streaming.. What's the sample rate/bandwidth?

2. Do you have many other SSIDs ( wireless network names) from neighboughs visible in your house?

3. Do you have several devices on the wireless network you use for streaming?

 

fWIW I instruct my upnp server to transcode to mp3 for my wireless devices and send WAV to my wired devices .

Wireless devices, like ethernet over mains, can only transmit one at a time, and so the more devices on a network the slower the throughput. Also wireless networks tend to share the radip spectrum bandwidth with other networks so the more networks there are the slower the throughput irrespective of signal strength. There are only a small number of non overlapping channels. So remember to switch off the wireless on the home hub if you ate not using it.

Simon

 

Posted on: 10 February 2013 by IanG
Simon, answers are as follows : 1. FLACs are standard CD rips so streaming at 1400 ish Kbps. I haven't attempted the hi res stuff ! 2. SSIDs local. Quite a few yes. 3. Streaming devices. Only the two iPods on docking stations. Everything else that connects wirelessly is mainly just web browsing etc. I've got Twonky running on a QNAP NAS. Am not sure it can do the transcoding as you suggest but that might be an answer if it could. Both iPods worked ok with BT HH although my daughters (in an upstairs bedroom at furthest point from router) did suffer from relatively frequent dropout. The other iPod (in the kitchen next door to the router) worked well the majority of the time. The obvious answer seems to be reinstall the HH and forget the Airports but having spent £200+ to improve my wifi, I am hoping to get these to work. This is the strangest thing, my daughters iPod used to get 1 bar in her bedroom but now it is getting a full 3 but the FLAC streaming is worse. FWIW her laptop Internet connection in her room is faster/better too.
Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Rich27

If it is just the wireless performance of the HH3 that is the problem why not use the HH3 with the wireless turned off and then connect the Airport Extreme in Bridge mode?  This way you can set up the Airport Extreme to give you a nice dual band wireless network in conjunction with the other network functionality of the HH3 which was working before.

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by IanG
Hi Rich, thanks for that. Just so I understand, does that mean a NAS running a upnp server such as Twonky cannot stream wirelessly using an Airport ? If I configure it as you suggested in bridge mode, will this solve the problem ? Or, is it better to just chuck it in the bin and revert to the HH. FYI everything (wired and wireless) was slow with the HH. Hence the desire to try something else.
Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Rich27

Ian,

 

I am not familiar with the QNAP as I have a Synology but otherwise my set up is very similar.

 

I have a Netgear router connected directly to the phone line which acts as the main router (serving up DHCP etc.).  To this is connected my Airport Extreme (in Bridge mode) which is then connected to a Netgear 8 port switch.  The switch then connects to my NAS, iMAC, Sonos etc.

 

My Netgear has wireless switched off therefore all other devices in the house connect through the Airport Extreme.  Only the ipads connect wirelessly though, all other devices are hardwired to either an Airport Express or a Sonos unit to get their network connection.  This includes the Moon streamer for my hifi, x 2 Sky boxes, x 2 Samsung TV's and an Apple TV!

 

This all just seems to work, I can stream 24/192 FLAC to the Moon with no drop outs. iPlayer etc on the TV's can be a bit flaky, but this is down to our slooooowww broadband not the wireless.

 

As a bit of a test, I turned off the upnp server in my Netgear router and I could still stream music from the NAS to the Moon in the lounge.

 

This kind of points towards Twonky being the issue, but try the above with HH3 and Airport Extreme and see if it improves things.

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by IanG
That kind of makes sense. My ND5XS has had no problem but it is hardwired, effectively just using the router as a switch. Does anyone know if the settings of the Airports can be changed to allow Twonky to stream wirelessly ? OR If I run with the HH as suggested by Rich27 with the airport just in bridge mode, will the wireless streaming then work ?
Posted on: 11 February 2013 by IanG
Explain this folks.... I've come home from work ready to do battle and everything is working fine. Bizarre.
Posted on: 11 February 2013 by IanG
Ok. A little premature that one but I may have some more info to help diagnosis. When I got home both iPods have been happily streaming from the NAS. I have witnessed this and listened to almost a full album on one of them. After dinner I returned to the lounge, turned on my ND5 and had a bit of messing around to get n-Stream to connect. Once done, it was playing fine. Listened to one track, switched off and went to try my daughters iPod and it has lost Twonky again. The other iPod has it but is slow and cutting out every few seconds. So, it looks like a setting in Twonky causing the issue. Any help ?
Posted on: 11 February 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Ian, I can only think of lack of wifi bandwidth due to other devices on the wifi network  or traffic neighbouring SSIDs. If Twonky works on a wired connection, that's all I can think of without looking at wire shark on the end of a PC or similar using wifi and seeing if there are lost packets etc causing TCP retransmits, though this being the case us unlikely to be an issue if a good wifi signal.

Posted on: 11 February 2013 by IanG
I'm not sure what it is Simon..... I've just reinstated the HH and everything is working perfectly. I've just had both iPods and my ND5 streaming from the NAS simultaneously. The ND5 wired the two iPods wirelessly. I was going to experiment with the Airport on wireless only duties attached to the HH but am reluctant even to try that now. An expensive mistake for sure but we live and we learn. I'm sure there must be a way of making them work but why fix what ain't broken. PS I relocated the HH in the room and that seems to have helped enormously. Should have tried that first. Thanks for help and advice all.