Uniti / Twonky skipped tracks / indexing problems

Posted by: Number 7 on 17 February 2013

Morninng -I've had my Uniti for a few months now, and have come across a few problems which I wonder if I could ask for some assistance with. I  ripped all my cds via the latest version of Windows Media Player, and stored them on a new Western Digital My Book Live NAS drive (all per advice from Audio T). I am using a Netgear router, originally connected to the Uniti wi-fi, but now I have run it with a Devolo system over mains cable.  Problems are that only about half of the cds have album artwork stored, and the indexing system doesn’t seem very good. I almost always use the n-Stream application when playing music (in fact I would not have even bought an Iphone if the application was available for other smart phones) , and both on the phone display and the Uniti display there are 2 lines of missing data, each noted as “unknown”. The NAS drive uses something called Twonky, which doesn’t seem to be well regarded based on some research here. Another example is calling up either the Artist list or the Album list results in a complete listing of every track on the drive, in alphabetical track order. Only in the “Folder” section is a complete artist listing, and sub-listings for albums. However, the artist list is in alpha order by first name of the artist, rather than last name as I would expect. Additionally, within albums themselves, tracks have been re-ordered from the source material into alphabetical order, which cannot be right.

 

In actual use, (via n-Stream) I have found more than occasionally that tracks won’t play, with the message “skipped track – can’t play”, whilst at other times previously skipped tracks do play. A test with a skipped track using the supplied remote played the track, but with several audio drop-outs of several seconds.

 

 Of less significance is that the only way I could see to create a playlist using the laptop was to copy tracks into newly created folders in the artist listing. This is not a storage issue, but it does not seem a very effective way of doing things. Is there a better one?

 

I foresee that I’m going to have to re-rip all of the cds to get the artwork sorted, but if I could understand what is causing these other problems, maybe I can overcome them – or am I expecting too much of this system?

 

Also just noticed that I’m on version 3.1 of n-Stream, rather than the current 3.2, so will update that, but it does not appear to relate to my product anyway.

Thanks in advance

Posted on: 01 July 2013 by Jasonf
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:

       
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

Best avoid the limitations of the upnp servers bundled with NAS drives. If you aren't using dedicated server hardware then you can just run something like Asset upnp server on a network connected computer and, so long as you ensure it's pointed at the files on your NAS,  this should stream music files from your NAS very nicely - this appears to work well with the Naim streamers and n-Stream giving full track listings, artwork etc...

Hi Richard

 

I totally agree, and it would be the best and cheapest solution for me. I am a Mac user and although it looks like Asset do a beta version for Mac, I've read that it doesn't work that well. Is it a fact that the computer would have to be left on, more or less 24/7? Not sure if Asset would work whilst the computer was in sleep mode?

 

Phil stated that there are some Small Form Factor, low power PC's out there, perhaps that is a way forward, but not a cheap one. 

 


       


Hey Meerkat,

What about if you exchanged your SSD U-Serve for a hard drive version, used that as the UPnP server/storer and just used the NAS as the backup for the U-Serve. That way you don't need a pc running all the time and you will have a fail safe UPnp server.

When I decided on my server, I was not really fully tuned into the SSD version of the U-Serve as it required the  potential headache of an additional hardware/software link in the chain going belly up. I understand the benefits of the SSD version are no harddrive going wrong, possible SQ benefits (if detectable by ear) and some others that I cant think of, but I just feel the simplicity of the one box server solution provided by the hard drive version is a simpler method......but correct me if I am missing something here.

Jason.
Posted on: 01 July 2013 by Jasonf
Originally Posted by Phil Harris:

       
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:
Hi Richard

 

I totally agree, and it would be the best and cheapest solution for me. I am a Mac user and although it looks like Asset do a beta version for Mac, I've read that it doesn't work that well. Is it a fact that the computer would have to be left on, more or less 24/7? Not sure if Asset would work whilst the computer was in sleep mode?

 

 

Hi,

 

I've used the OSX Beta of Asset UPnP on a number of occasions (some of the guys here also run it) and in my own experience it has been reliable (albeit it doesn't look pretty) and in feedback from people using it it has never been less reliable than any of the other established "usual" OSX UPnP servers.

 

Originally Posted by The Meerkat:
 

Phil stated that there are some Small Form Factor, low power PC's out there, perhaps that is a way forward, but not a cheap one. 

 

 

It's worth using this opportunity to illustrate something that I see all the time - it's easy for a user to perceive the value in using decent audio equipment but it still needs to be understood why it's worth spending effort / money on the UPnP server (after all, it is your music source isn't it) and instead cutting corners and using a "free" UPnP server (something that you either don't have to pay for or is embedded in a cheap NAS)

 

Even if you have a basic Qute you're still looking at £1,000 on your audio product and you can pick up a 750Gb Revo Mini PC from somewhere like Maplin for under £300 ( http://www.maplin.co.uk/acer-r...4gb-750gb-hdd-720004  or a ReadyNAS Duo (about the most "appliance" like NAS I've come across in that it just works and you have to deal with minimal quirks) with 2 x 1Tb drives will be about £200)...

 

Cheers

 

Phil


       


Totally agree with these sentiments.

We often read that the U-Serve is "just" a pc so why pay 2000 pounds when one can achieve the same for much less, but people continually fail to see that you can not achieve the same for less...at least not with out a lot more hardware and software, time and effort. The U-Serve guarantees simplicity of set up and use and the Naim SQ.....it looks after ones entire digital audio library and I consider it to be more important that the rest of the music chain.

Let Naim Take The Strain

Jason.
Posted on: 01 July 2013 by The Meerkat

Jason...You are so right!

 

Also, I had a long chat with Phil this morning, he is so knowledgable! In a word..I am keeping my UnitiServe SSD!!

Posted on: 01 July 2013 by Phil Harris
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:

Jason...You are so right!

 

Also, I had a long chat with Phil this morning, he is so knowledgable! In a word..I am keeping my UnitiServe SSD!!

 

I've been called many things but that's a first!

 

Hopefully the chat we had was useful and in some way informative ...

 

Cheers

 

Phil

Posted on: 01 July 2013 by Number 7
Originally Posted by Phil Harris:
:
>



It's worth using this opportunity to illustrate something that I see all the time - it's easy for a user to perceive the value in using decent audio equipment but it still needs to be understood why it's worth spending effort / money on the UPnP server (after all, it is your music source isn't it) and instead cutting corners and using a "free" UPnP server (something that you either don't have to pay for or is embedded in a cheap NAS)

 

Cheers

Phil


Hindsight and all that - in my case it was an authorised Naim dealer from whom I  bought the hardware that at the same time specifically recommended the NAS and WMP as a ripper. As a total novice to streaming I had no reason to believe that this advice would turn out to be an imperfect solution (by a long way).  As far as the best way to rectify this for my system, I could use my new Windows 8 laptop, but would this still function when it goes into sleep mode? I'd rather not spend a few more hundred pounds on more hardware if I can avoid it. Using a laptop, why do I still need a NAS? Do I not just store the audio files on the laptop?
Sorry, can't figure out the formatting to get quotes arranged correctly.
Posted on: 01 July 2013 by PG

It is possible that this is covered elsewhere but here goes....

 

What is the ideal in terms of streaming from a hardware/software point of view (items to have rather than naimed products).

 

Is it some form of storage device for music/rips, a small PC/MacMini running some form of Media software all linking into whatever system you have. 

 

I have a QNAP 212 NAS running Twonky, it has it's foibles but the issues I have had with it have been down to my ripping and saving, the system seems to work and I am not fussed about artwork, but given the comments in this thread I am wondering whether I should dust out an old laptop with broken screen and then put the rather confusing asset on it and disable Twonky on the NAS. 

 

There seems to be so many options and Phil's earlier comment seems to suggest that a NAS running any bundled software is less than perfect.

 

Having said all that my music does sound lovely into my NAC N172XS/NAP155XS/REGA RS3, a real steal

Posted on: 03 July 2013 by Phil Harris

No software is perfect and for some people the NAS's own UPnP servers can be fine but they do have limitations and other people may find those to be limiting in their circumstances and for their needs....

 

Phil

Posted on: 06 July 2013 by minnow

Hallelujah!!! I posted with this exact problem some months ago.  I too have a WD MyBook Live running Twonky. The only differences to Number 7 is I have  a UnitiQute (surely no material difference) and I have ripped everything via iTunes.  

 

I have the exact same problem - all the music I have ripped recently now appears in 'Folder' on n-Stream and not in any other directories on the n-Stream.  Originally my music appeared in the other folder directories, but sometime in the last few months new music now does not.  What's happened, I have not started doing anything differently.  I can only conclude n-stream or Twonky has started to behave differently.

 

I have tried checking my metadata settings on i-Tunes, removing and reloading music on my NAS, deleting and reloading n-Stream. I have even tried running the .jpg scipt (artwork has never worked).

 

Nothing has worked and I have rapidly formed the conclusion that NAS drive streaming is the devils work! And I should move to a mac mini running an optical cable (read lots of good reviews about the wireworld supernova 6) or via usb/spdif converter (some on this forum say the nova is fine and the jitter of the mac mini is so low a usb/spdif converter is not needed).

 

Having read this thread, what I seem to be understanding is that we should try using a UnUP server that runs Asset rather than Twonky (which everyone seems to agree is flaky 'as').  I don't want to have to buy a windows lap top.

 

If correct, Phil (or someone else) can you recommend any UnUP NAS drive that will run with OS that

might actually solve this 'folder' issue?  

 
Or have i missed the point?
 
many thanks
minnow
 
Originally Posted by Number 7:

Morninng -I've had my Uniti for a few months now, and have come across a few problems which I wonder if I could ask for some assistance with. I  ripped all my cds via the latest version of Windows Media Player, and stored them on a new Western Digital My Book Live NAS drive (all per advice from Audio T). I am using a Netgear router, originally connected to the Uniti wi-fi, but now I have run it with a Devolo system over mains cable.  Problems are that only about half of the cds have album artwork stored, and the indexing system doesn’t seem very good. I almost always use the n-Stream application when playing music (in fact I would not have even bought an Iphone if the application was available for other smart phones) , and both on the phone display and the Uniti display there are 2 lines of missing data, each noted as “unknown”. The NAS drive uses something called Twonky, which doesn’t seem to be well regarded based on some research here. Another example is calling up either the Artist list or the Album list results in a complete listing of every track on the drive, in alphabetical track order. Only in the “Folder” section is a complete artist listing, and sub-listings for albums. However, the artist list is in alpha order by first name of the artist, rather than last name as I would expect. Additionally, within albums themselves, tracks have been re-ordered from the source material into alphabetical order, which cannot be right.

 

In actual use, (via n-Stream) I have found more than occasionally that tracks won’t play, with the message “skipped track – can’t play”, whilst at other times previously skipped tracks do play. A test with a skipped track using the supplied remote played the track, but with several audio drop-outs of several seconds.

 

 Of less significance is that the only way I could see to create a playlist using the laptop was to copy tracks into newly created folders in the artist listing. This is not a storage issue, but it does not seem a very effective way of doing things. Is there a better one?

 

I foresee that I’m going to have to re-rip all of the cds to get the artwork sorted, but if I could understand what is causing these other problems, maybe I can overcome them – or am I expecting too much of this system?

 

Also just noticed that I’m on version 3.1 of n-Stream, rather than the current 3.2, so will update that, but it does not appear to relate to my product anyway.

Thanks in advance

Posted on: 06 July 2013 by sjbabbey

I also have the 'skipped track - can't play' issue with my ND5XS. It occurs when I change between music in different sample rates e.g. between 24/96kHz flac files and ISOs at 24/176.4kHz. It only seems to be the first track of the new format which is skipped and it may be because my different file formats are on different WD MBL NAS drives (24/96) /internal PC hard drive (24/176.4). I'm using J River as my music server on my PC and have set up separate DLNA servers for the different types of file so it may be this switching between those that is causing my issue. I have set the hardware delay setting on J River to 4 seconds but still get the skipped track issue when switching formats.

 

I have disabled Twonky on my MBL drives so it can't be that which is causing this issue.

 

Any thoughts?

Posted on: 06 July 2013 by PG

I am not a computer expert but can normally fathom my way round various packages, however following on from the various posts here, including mine, I decided to fire up a rough old laptop and try Asset and J River.

 

Two days later I eventually get both of them to find the NAS, aren't windows machines a joy.....

 

Then J River insists on playing everything MP3 and Asset leaves the building every so often.

 

So have decided. Stick with QNAP NAS and Twonky, which can accessed via my MAC and using Qute control. It works, now I sorted my formats out, and I can live with an odd album cover and some strange filing, it just plays music, just like the MAC works. We used to stick vinyl on a turntable and play, a cd in a draw and pressed play, streaming should be no different but it seems we need to be tinkerers as well.

 

Back to the tennis....