Better volume control for n-Stream please...

The slider works fine (and instantly) on the SuperUniti.

Ah, that's what I probably meant - the SuperUNITI.

And yes, that's what I would like on my NDX / 252 combo.

Hi Grizzly, 

on another thread, not so long ago, there was some concern over the slider method as a Forum member was concerned about the potential to blow out his speakers, which they felt they almost did. The problem being that with the slider one can quite easily push the slider right across by mistake by a sleeve or a child  or something similar. 

That potential danger indicated to most contributers to the thread that the button method was the lesser off two evils....I have the buttons on my ND5xs. I think the lag varies according to the connection rate...and therefore be the same for the slider?????

Jason.

Hi Jason,

Yes, I have read that thread too. My opinion would be that a slider with a 'red zone' of some description would be the answer.

If you slide the volume into the red zone the app has a small pop-up warning you of the noise level you are requesting and asking if you really want to go there.

Personally I would prefer a round volume dial on the screen that you spin therefore replicating the old analogue hardware version. Again you could have the red zone. A round dial would also add a degree of human interaction and a feel good factor. and instantly has the benefit of seeing where the volume is currently set.

I just find the buttons terrible to use.

Cheers,

Tom

The slider is definitely not perfect. My volume nearly always changes by one or two points up or down when I release the slide, as it were. That means I have to try again to get the exact setting I want - sometimes I have quite a fight to get it to stay where I want it. I would also like it to display a number which matches the number on the SU display. That way, even if I am turning up the volume because I'm outside the room, I know what I'm setting it to. The max volume facility is a useful safety feature though.

I agree with what jobseeker has said. I do often prefer to use the standard Naim remote for volume changing because one has more precise control. But the ability to set a maximum volume does remove the trick of speaker blowing.

Agreed, the remote is good... but in our instance the Naim kit is inside a cabinet, so to use the remote I've got to walk to it and open a door so I may as well use the volume knob! I also often start playing the Naim from a different room e.g. I'm in the kitchen and the Naim is in the living room, so the remote wouldn't work :-(

We all have different setups but Naim has got to be able to do better than the current n-Stream volume control solution.

I believe that a slider type control can only be used effectively with a volume control that provides feedback to the processor.  The pre-amp volume controls are one-way only - i.e. you tell the motor to move one way or another, but there's no feedback on actual position of the control.  To do things otherwise requires a digital control, so a redesign of the pre-amps.

For me buttons are fine for volume control, but there should definitely be a scale (not a slider) or a dB level digital readout to show the present volume level. Perhaps this is not possible because  nStream has no idea at what position the pre amp volume knob is.

Also, the mute button should change colour if in use.

Ah......my guess has just been confirmed by Richard while I was typing the last post.

Peter, you're correct. Without logic feedback it has no idea of the position of the motorised volume pot,  so a scale or dB level readout is not possible, so all one can do is provide UP or Down controls, just like a regular remote control.

Hi Richard, OK, understood.

This is not very clever or was not very well thought through considering how much our kit costs.

I am disappointed that my dealer recommended this setup considering this problem. It makes using the NDX/252 and n-Stream a constantly annoying experience.

Grizzlyhippo,

I'm not sure I understand.  I would rather have volume up/ down functionality than none at all and it is exactly the same as you get with a normal remote control.  It's only an "issue" if you're using one of the pre-amps and even then I find it works just fine.  I'd rather have a great sounding volume control that works this way, than a digitalk control that imapirs overall sound quality - as many do.  It may be that when it comes time to revamp the pre-amps the way the volume control works may be revised - but ONLY if performance is either as good or better than the existing arrangement.  But I have no idea what Naim is working on for the future, so couldn't say. 

Allen, you are probably right.  I tend to use the remote for volume or just use my hand - set it and forget it - so don't rely heavily on the App.  I guess this thread provides good feedback for Naim though and I know they're always interested in improving functionality wherever they can.

Somehow I've gotten in the habit of checking the volume knob before I start playing music.  I never have it THAT loud anyway, but nevertheless it has become natural for me to walk over to the rack as I'm starting my evening of listening.  And, if I remember, which I usually do, I turn the volume all the way down when I'm finished.

Given that 10 years worth of black box preamps have been built without any facility to provide feedback to an app regarding the position of the volume control, what are you all suggesting as a "fix?" 

Bart, while you are correct about 10 years of black box development, I think Naim should be educating their dealer network more. My NDX and 252 were bought at the same time last year and I  expected a connected and coherent volume control between the two when using the app. The dealer should have known about this fundamental pitfall and cautioned me about it or steered me to a different setup.

Yes, this would be an improvement for the volume control.

What I fail to understand is this. In my SONOS app I can tap the left and right buttons on the volume slider for small incremental volume changes. This is the same theory as the n-Stream app. However, the SONOS app works brilliantly with little or no lag over my network and small taps working brilliantly to alter the volume instantaneously. Why the heck can't the Naim app replicate this user experience when tapping the up and down buttons? When tapping the Naim buttons there is a huge lag before anything happens to the volume in the room, sometimes nothing happens and sometimes too much. In my opinion it has been very poorly thought through and executed.

SONOS = £ hundreds of pounds, but it works really well.
Naim = £ tens of thousands of pounds, and it works poorly.

Is this due to Naim using UPnP, which I believe SONOS does not use? And if so can someone explain why Naim uses UPnP?

In this age of apps Naim should be concentrating a lot on the user experience in the app, not just the (brilliant) sound quality coming out of the speakers.

I thought that's what ears were for...

While it's slick to be able to control volume from the iPad - when the app is up and running - it's just so much simpler to pick up the physical remote. Otherwise, it's : find the iPad, open cover, swipe, open n-Stream app, wait, move volume slider.. just a bit to avoid overshoot... wait a bit more... what's that dear, you want to check your emails.. hang on a sec'

Of course if you're out of line of sight, that changes things. But you really should be getting up now and then and physically interacting with your streamer. These machines need love too.

Jan

Now we have factored in that any app that uses that nice Apple software has to go through interminable waits to get approved, haven't we?

Andy

I fall into the camp of 'happy to use the IR remote.'

If music has been playing for 20 minutes, and the phone rings and I want to lower the volume QUICKLY, I'd have two choices.  (1) Use the IR remote and do it in about 2 seconds total, or (2) push the home button on my iPhone, enter my code to unlock it, tap the nStream app, etc etc etc.

Horses for courses, but I'm pretty happy with the IR remote for volume control duties, and not relying on the iPhone for that.

In some music players (certainly Foobar and JRiver) there is something called "replay gain" which scans your library and adjusts the volume so they all are rendered at similar volume. I have read that this does not adversely affect sound quality and certainly I can't detect any degradation. It doesn't actually alter the files themselves so it is reversible.

Bubbleupnp has a slider which shows the volume number in line with my SU; also the maximum volume the slider allows is whatever is set on the SU when Bubble is activated so no danger of overload as basically it works as an attenuator. It would be nice if the Android version of Nstream worked like this when it appears! Are you listening naim??.