Uniti serve info
Posted by: Gandalph on 15 March 2013
Hi everyone,
Looking for some input on the Uniti serve's use. After going through and reading the Unitiserve's specs, correct me if I'm wrong, I assume it will rip in any given supported format, right? I also have two other questions concerning ripping. How does it treat HDCD cds? Does it handles the extra layer and create a 24 bit file, or does it simply ignore the extra data and treat it as a regular rebook CD? On gapless CDs where the music just flows from song to song without any interruptions, is this carried out in the same way, or is each track ripped and played separately introducing a gap in between each track?
Thanks for your input.
Hi,
I believe the Unitiserve only rips in wav, but will serve wav;mp3;m4a;aac;fla;flac;wma;aif;aiff;ogg;oga. It rips HDCD as standard.. It does seamless playback on gapless tracks.
Gerry
Thank you for your prompt reply Gerry. Very informative. So, as I understand it, as a ripping machine I'm better off doing it myself from a computer since I'll have to do dome file conversion and rip the HDCDs as well. I guess that just rules that product out as a potential server, since I'd be paying for a ripping potential that is more or less useless.
The Unitiserve is not for everyone. It would depend on how many HDCD's you have I have 15 and it was not a problem, compared with the ease of ripping some 3000 CD's. I am not sure why you would need to convert the WAV files that are ripped by the Unitiserve.
It is also a good UPNP server and can simultaneously serve up to 6 devices. It can also play CD's.
Gerry
You will only have to convert the wav files if you need low quality files for portable devices. If this is what you need Naim has promised this feature in the Next firmware upgrade for the servers.
Claus
Gerry, if the unitiserve is not for everyone, without being rude, then who is it for? Of course HDCDs may never amount to that many CDs in someone's collection, although there are people who are happy with less than 50 CDs and, therefore, their entire collection could be made-up of strictly HDCDs. The issue is not so much the amount of HDCDs I have, but the fact that if I want to retain the HDCD info, and sound quality, I still have to use a computer and software, such as dbPoweramp, and do it myself to do a proper rip. So far, that is what I have done. To put things into perspective, as to why I would have to convert the WAV files, it's mainly to keep my life and my nDAC's life simple in having a standard file format and in avoiding redundancy, in both steps, or actions, and hardware. I've read quite a few posts where either steps or hardware was a redundant factor and I would like as much as possible to avoid this. I'm fairly new to the world of "computer audio" and still trying to grasp what is needed, or what is the best, simplest and most cost effective way to implement such a solution. Not an easy task, I find, and I'm still in the learning process, which I often find somewhat irritating. Last year I bought the nDAC as the first building block of this computer audio puzzle. The nDAC's immediate purchasing reason was twofold, as I wanted to be able to play Hi-Res files and also integrate the sound system into the HT. The computer audio part really came afterwards, as I git a better understanding of the DAC's potential. If you do a search on my previous posts, you will find that this introduction to the world of computer audio, and the nDAC for that matter, has not been without any major glitches. I initially proceeded in getting dbPoweramp, after reading it was the best thing to use, and started ripping my CD collection to WAV file format. Everything was working fine on my computer, so did the few samples I played on the nDAC along the way using a USB stick. But, pretty soon, I was faced with two types of problems. On the one hand, when mixed file formats, standard 16-bit WAV and HIres FLAC files were on the same key, both types were not played. On the other hand, which was even more annoying, was this blast of white noise I got at the end of the last WAV file being played from the USB stick. To make a long story short, this was due to the lack of a standard way of implementing tagging to a WAV file. Only after converting all my files to FLAC did this problem resolve itself. I also have problems at times with FLAC files. If they are too compressed, they will simply not play. So, although the nDAC does sound good, I still have doubts about its ability at handling different audio files. Perhaps, the unitiserve would solve the nDAC's issues, although it seems to have a few of its own, but I'm not tempted to dish out $3-4k to find out that it doesn't and that it doesn't allow me to do what I want the way I want. Basically, the FLAC file format suites me fine. Most downloads are offered in that format and it has the ability to be compressed, thus saving space, while not affecting the audio quality. The same could be said about ALAC, as well. So, if these file formats can be played back by the unitiserve, why can't they initially be ripped to that format as well? I have no need, as such, for file conversion since FLAC has served me better than WAV, and that, to me, would be redundant. I think the redundancy issue that some have stressed out in different posts seems to stem from the source. Naim products don't integrate seamlessly and they overlap in function. I also have no need for an additional machine that can play CDs as well, since I, like most of us, already have a CD player. Again that would be redundant. A smart product integration would have been to use that CD player and build a machine that would simply use it to rip from it and perhaps have the dual function of being a server as well. Since I intend to keep doing my rips myself, which so far I find the best solution, is a streamer more likely to satisfy my need and are Naim products still the best solution in that respect, or are there better suited alternatives?
Gerry, if the unitiserve is not for everyone, without being rude, then who is it for?
It is for some of the customers. Myself included -- I enjoy my UnitiServe and it is an integral part of my home audio system.
If you only want to rip to flac, it is not for you.
But do not fret that the cd drive can also be used as a player; one can simply ignore that feature. I am not convinced that I paid any more for it; I think of it as a free bonus, and particularly handy as I have a UnitiQute but no cd player in one of my rooms.
Thanks for clearing that up Bart. Now I know it was meant for you. That really helps.
Gerry, if the unitiserve is not for everyone, without being rude, then who is it for?
1. Music lovers who want a reliable and simple appliance for ripping (to WAV), storing, aggregating and serving music locally or over a network, without having to deal with a traditional computer. That would be me, for example, as I spend most of my workday on a computer and am loathe to continue on one when I get home (says he as he types on an iPad).
2. Music lovers who have come to believe that a good server, when properly designed and set up, and fed with a linear power supply, is as important to digital replay as is the turntable to vinyl replay.
Of course HDCDs may never amount to that many CDs in someone's collection, although there are people who are happy with less than 50 CDs and, therefore, their entire collection could be made-up of strictly HDCDs.
For me, it's performance and recording first, then format second. I have some wonderful HDCDs, and many non-HDCDs that sound as good. I'm with Naim on this one, finding that WAV files played back on the UnitiServe are far beyond what my former CDS2 had accustomed me to. Given the choice between an HDCD on the CDS2 vs non-HDCD wav rip on the UnitiServe, I'll take the latter.
The issue is not so much the amount of HDCDs I have, but the fact that if I want to retain the HDCD info, and sound quality, I still have to use a computer and software, such as dbPoweramp, and do it myself to do a proper rip. So far, that is what I have done. To put things into perspective, as to why I would have to convert the WAV files, it's mainly to keep my life and my nDAC's life simple in having a standard file format and in avoiding redundancy, in both steps, or actions, and hardware.
That argues strongly in favour of the UnitiServe.
I've read quite a few posts where either steps or hardware was a redundant factor and I would like as much as possible to avoid this. I'm fairly new to the world of "computer audio" and still trying to grasp what is needed, or what is the best, simplest and most cost effective way to implement such a solution.
UnitiServe If you're starting off 'unripped'. If you're well on your ripping way, then you just need a means of aggregating your collection and serving it through a stable UPnP server (on a NAS, for example).
Not an easy task, I find, and I'm still in the learning process, which I often find somewhat irritating. Last year I bought the nDAC as the first building block of this computer audio puzzle.
That's a bit like buying a phonostage before deciding on the turntable. Not a criticism, just an observation of how confusing this area can be.
The Naim DAC locks you into S/PDIF or USB keys to feed it, which then leads to a search for a top notch S/PDIF source, which inevitably turns out to be the UnitiServe, which in turn opens up the path to UPnP playback, which then gets you thinking about a UPnP streamer...
The nDAC's immediate purchasing reason was twofold, as I wanted to be able to play Hi-Res files and also integrate the sound system into the HT. The computer audio part really came afterwards, as I git a better understanding of the DAC's potential. If you do a search on my previous posts, you will find that this introduction to the world of computer audio, and the nDAC for that matter, has not been without any major glitches. I initially proceeded in getting dbPoweramp, after reading it was the best thing to use, and started ripping my CD collection to WAV file format. Everything was working fine on my computer, so did the few samples I played on the nDAC along the way using a USB stick.
If you're going to use USB as your main source for getting digital information into a DAC, then the Naim DAC is not the best choice, because you have no visual information on what is playing. One of the Naim streamers will be a better choice, as you will have display of folders and their content.
But, pretty soon, I was faced with two types of problems. On the one hand, when mixed file formats, standard 16-bit WAV and HIres FLAC files were on the same key, both types were not played. On the other hand, which was even more annoying, was this blast of white noise I got at the end of the last WAV file being played from the USB stick. To make a long story short...(I'll do it for you...
....., is a streamer more likely to satisfy my need and are Naim products still the best solution in that respect, or are there better suited alternatives?
Yes, a Naim streamer would appear as the better option in your situation. It will open up the path to streaming music via UPnP, which the Naim DAC cannot do. UPnP will generally outperform playback via S/PDIF, while saving you the expense of a digital cable.
If you like what Naim does with CD replay, then you will feel at home with the streamers. Naim is not the only streamer game in town, but if you prefer Naim's way with music, then they are the only streamer game in town.
Jan
Hi Simon,
I didn't see that as the main point, but then its easy to overlook something in a stream-of-conciousness post... hence my gentle suggestion to Gandalph to use the return key.
While solutions exist for ripping HDCDs, he will still need an HDCD enabled DAC to implement the correct filters during playback. So if he doesn't have such a DAC, then there is no advantage to a 20-bit rip, since the DAC will only play back the 16 bit encoding, if I understand the process correctly.
Jan
Hi Simon,
I didn't see that as the main point, but then its easy to overlook something in a stream-of-conciousness post... hence my gentle suggestion to Gandalph to use the return key.
While solutions exist for ripping HDCDs, he will still need an HDCD enabled DAC to implement the correct filters during playback. So if he doesn't have such a DAC, then there is no advantage to a 20-bit rip, since the DAC will only play back the 16 bit encoding, if I understand the process correctly.
Jan
I think Simon has a better grasp at my "stream-of-consciuosness" than you may. Perhaps he was not as phased-out as you were by it.
Are you suggesting that the nDAC is also incapable of properly handling HDCD's 24 bit files as well? This might simplify my quest and ultimately redirect my money stream elsewhere.
No need to get testy Gandalph... I think I was quite patient in providing detailed responses to your post. It does help reading - and comprehension - to break things up a bit into paragraphs.
***
The Naim DAC handles hi-resolution files, but does not decode HDCDs. The UnitiServe will correctly rip HDCD disks ; you just won't get them decoded through the Naim DAC.
More background here :
https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...9109/reply/lastReply
Jan
Gerry, if the unitiserve is not for everyone, without being rude, then who is it for?
1. Music lovers who want a reliable and simple appliance for ripping (to WAV), storing, aggregating and serving music locally or over a network, without having to deal with a traditional computer. That would be me, for example, as I spend most of my workday on a computer and am loathe to continue on one when I get home (says he as he types on an iPad).
2. Music lovers who have come to believe that a good server, when properly designed and set up, and fed with a linear power supply, is as important to digital replay as is the turntable to vinyl replay.
Are you still talking about the Unitiserve, because nowhere in the literaure does it mention anything about linear power supplies. Actually, one of the benefits I saw when reading about the Uitiserve was that, for once, I did not have to dish out another load of cash on a power supply just to get the unit working as it should, as it was not an upgrade option. On the other hand, the literature did mention something about a "very low noise power supply", that would probably be in harmony with my Hicap and 250's hum. Sounds lovely... The audio signal is noise free, but the room in which you are listening is buzzing, but with not just joy.
Of course HDCDs may never amount to that many CDs in someone's collection, although there are people who are happy with less than 50 CDs and, therefore, their entire collection could be made-up of strictly HDCDs.
For me, it's performance and recording first, then format second. I have some wonderful HDCDs, and many non-HDCDs that sound as good. I'm with Naim on this one, finding that WAV files played back on the UnitiServe are far beyond what my former CDS2 had accustomed me to. Given the choice between an HDCD on the CDS2 vs non-HDCD wav rip on the UnitiServe, I'll take the latter.
I totally agree about performance and recording, but when you can have both put to HDCD, then why would you want to dump it?
The issue is not so much the amount of HDCDs I have, but the fact that if I want to retain the HDCD info, and sound quality, I still have to use a computer and software, such as dbPoweramp, and do it myself to do a proper rip. So far, that is what I have done. To put things into perspective, as to why I would have to convert the WAV files, it's mainly to keep my life and my nDAC's life simple in having a standard file format and in avoiding redundancy, in both steps, or actions, and hardware.
That argues strongly in favour of the UnitiServe.
So the marketing people would say... But if you read-on, without being too selective, you'll understand why this has not been the case so far and ultimately raises legitimate concerns and greater awareness in taking the next steps...
I've read quite a few posts where either steps or hardware was a redundant factor and I would like as much as possible to avoid this. I'm fairly new to the world of "computer audio" and still trying to grasp what is needed, or what is the best, simplest and most cost effective way to implement such a solution.
UnitiServe If you're starting off 'unripped'. If you're well on your ripping way, then you just need a means of aggregating your collection and serving it through a stable UPnP server (on a NAS, for example).
Alright then, do you have any suggestions as to what a stable UPnP server might be? Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of where the NAS fits into the equation is as a storgae space. I need something that will interface between the DAC and the NAS, that is also ideally remote-controlable.
Not an easy task, I find, and I'm still in the learning process, which I often find somewhat irritating. Last year I bought the nDAC as the first building block of this computer audio puzzle.
That's a bit like buying a phonostage before deciding on the turntable. Not a criticism, just an observation of how confusing this area can be.
Let me remind you that my initial need was to integrate video and audio together. The added bonus was that I was going to be able to play Hires files and enhance my CD player's performance. Only after did the concept of computer audio evolve in my mind.
Let me also remind you that I was not only following Naim's advice, and I quote " The recent introduction of our first stand-alone digital to analogue converter, the DAC, opens up the available upgrade options further for those sources with a digital output.", but also their logic into product launching. FYI, the Unitiserve and all other Naim look alike products, except for the HDX, came after the DAC, not the other way around.
In every aspect, I really fail to see the validity of your comment, or even the analogy between the DAC and a phonostage. In Naim's own words, the DAC is a digital music hub.
The Naim DAC locks you into S/PDIF or USB keys to feed it, which then leads to a search for a top notch S/PDIF source, which inevitably turns out to be the UnitiServe, which in turn opens up the path to UPnP playback, which then gets you thinking about a UPnP streamer...
The nDAC's immediate purchasing reason was twofold, as I wanted to be able to play Hi-Res files and also integrate the sound system into the HT. The computer audio part really came afterwards, as I git a better understanding of the DAC's potential. If you do a search on my previous posts, you will find that this introduction to the world of computer audio, and the nDAC for that matter, has not been without any major glitches. I initially proceeded in getting dbPoweramp, after reading it was the best thing to use, and started ripping my CD collection to WAV file format. Everything was working fine on my computer, so did the few samples I played on the nDAC along the way using a USB stick.
If you're going to use USB as your main source for getting digital information into a DAC, then the Naim DAC is not the best choice, because you have no visual information on what is playing. One of the Naim streamers will be a better choice, as you will have display of folders and their content.
I never said anything to that extent, although I admit being deceived by the fact that the USB ports were not asynchronous. Of course, the good marketing people were nice enough to avoid mentioning this issue. Nevertheless, I had to try them for what they were worth and as an intermediate step towards file based computer audio. Akin to the old days of sneaker net.
The marketing people also mention that the Naim DAC can be controlled by a Naim preamplifier remote control, seamlessly integrating analogue and digital inputs across the two units. The DAC becomes an extension of the preamplifier, yet I still fail to see how this works. I have no control over my DAC from my preamp's remote.
But, pretty soon, I was faced with two types of problems. On the one hand, when mixed file formats, standard 16-bit WAV and HIres FLAC files were on the same key, both types were not played. On the other hand, which was even more annoying, was this blast of white noise I got at the end of the last WAV file being played from the USB stick. To make a long story short...(I'll do it for you...
... and perhaps completely miss the point in doing so...
....., is a streamer more likely to satisfy my need and are Naim products still the best solution in that respect, or are there better suited alternatives?
Yes, a Naim streamer would appear as the better option in your situation. It will open up the path to streaming music via UPnP, which the Naim DAC cannot do. UPnP will generally outperform playback via S/PDIF, while saving you the expense of a digital cable.
I'm not sure I quite follow you on this one. I understand the DAC not doing UPnP, it has no network capability. On the other hand, the DAC is stated as an upgrade to the streamers, even though they have their own DAC, so how do you connect them both if not with a digital cable?
If you like what Naim does with CD replay, then you will feel at home with the streamers. Naim is not the only streamer game in town, but if you prefer Naim's way with music, then they are the only streamer game in town.
In that regard, what I need to know is what are my options? I may enjoy the Naim sound, but it doesn't mean I entirely adhere to the Naim way. Maybe there are more efficient solutions. After all, isn't the DAC giving the final flavour to the whole mix?
Jan
No need to get testy Gandalph... I think I was quite patient in providing detailed responses to your post. It does help reading - and comprehension - to break things up a bit into paragraphs.
***
The Naim DAC handles hi-resolution files, but does not decode HDCDs. The UnitiServe will correctly rip HDCD disks ; you just won't get them decoded through the Naim DAC.
More background here :
https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...9109/reply/lastReply
Jan
Poking outta work both ways...
FYI, I originally wrote my post offline in a text editor which I then copied and pasted to the post reply window and then hit the "submit reply" button without checking the final result. This is where all the formatting got lost. But, if you spend some time reading some William Burroughs or Jack Kerouac books you may find it less annoying. Actually, you may find my writing quite an easy read afterwards.
I'm confused now. What you are saying here is exactly the opposite of what Gerry was saying initially. I understand the part about the DAC not decoding HDCD, since it doesn't read CDs to begin with and it's already digested into a 24 bit file during the ripping process, if I do it myself using dbpoweramp. Does the Unitiserve create a 24 bit, or 16 bit, file from the HDCD. And, does the DAC read the 20 bits of data out of that 24 bit file or not?
Hi Gandalf,
Happy to help, as I don't think that you (yet) quite understand the functions of the Naim Dac vs. that of a streamer/player (such as the NDX) vs. that of the UnitiServe. There is overlap among the functions, so I understand how one can be confused at first. I have now owned all, and think I understand 
As to power supplies for the UnitiServe, this is a minor issue; do not worry about it. The provision of a third-party linear power supply is at a cost of a few hundred dollars -- not nearly the cost of external power supplies for other Naim gear. Such is NOT necessary -- merely available.
You can run a perfectly adequate UPnP server on a nas. My Synology 212j, which is a 2-drive nas that is quite affordable, includes among its extensive software packages a UPnP server. It works. This way you do not need to put another device between your nas and your switch to the rest of your network. Indeed, now-a-days a nas does far more than just storage. BUT, in this question you mentioned wanting something to interface between a nas and a Naim Dac. This is where you have gone down a wrong path. A nas is a networkable device only, and a Naim Dac is not networkable at all. They, essentially, are not meant to connect to each other. While the Naim Dac may be regarded as a "digital music hub," it cannot be regarded as doing that on an ethernet (tcp/ip) network. It could be a hub for a tv and an iPod and a device that itself is networked (such as an NDX), but the Naim Dac itself has no networkability. Indeed, if you want something to interface between the Naim Dac and a nas, it would have to be a player such as an NDX, where you are using the Naim Dac as an upgrade to the dac built into the NDX:
As Jan wrote, your intended use seems better served by a network streamer/player, such as an NDX. The Naim Dac is an 'upgrade' to the dac internal to the NDX, replacing the use of the internal dac in the NDX. In that use, the Naim Dac is connected only to the NDX, and not to the rest of the network. It merely replaced the dac internal to the NDX.
Yes, you get the 'Naim flavor' out of the Naim Dac. But the question remains, what will be your source of digital input to it? It cannot be a nas or any other ethernet connection. It CAN be the spdif output from the UnitiServe, and I know this is where it gets confusing because the UnitiServe has two distinct outputs (1) spdif digital output perfectly suited to connect directly to the Naim Dac and (2) an ethernet output perfectly suited to connect to a home network and then on to a streamer/player such as the NDX. And if you want to upgrade the NDX with an external Naim Dac, you may
Perhaps that last paragraph is most useful to you.
PS I have done both. I started with the UnitiServe connected directly to a Naim Dac, and then changed and put the UnitiServe onto my home network, sold the Dac and bought an NDS streamer/player. Both make for a fine source for a home hi fi.
Gerry and I are saying the same thing. The UnitiServe extracts a WAV file. That WAV file is a 16-bit, bit-perfect copy that includes the HDCD embedded encoding. Read through the link I posted earlier, as it is fairly well explained in there. Again, the Naim DAC will not read the HDCD encoding.
The HDCD process encodes the equivalent of a 20 or 24 bit signal into a 16-bit signal.
http://everything.explained.at..._Compatible_Digital/
Jan
+1 to Bart's post.
Agreed.
Gerry