Should I replace my Unitiserve with an NDX?

It is worth remembering that there are a number of NDX & NDS owners here who cannot hear a difference between WAV and other file formats, just as there are some who can. Hence, it's not a forgone conclusion by any means. There are numerous factors that can influence ones perception either way. System level is the most obvious one but even things like mood or expectation can make you believe you are hearing things differently or better. Auto-suggestion can be very powerful. Which is not to say that there isn't a difference. I am just saying. In any case, IMHO too much is made of the "differences". For most people it is likely to be largely an academic discussion.

For example, I could not hear a difference between WAV and AIFF or uncompressed FLAC (didn't try ALAC, etc.) in the context of my system, when owning the ND5XS. Not when streaming and certainly not when using it as a bit feeder into my nDAC/555PS. I sold it after a couple of months because to my ears it didn't sound any better than my Dr. Gert Volk modified Sonos ZP90 or Macbook Pro connected via Wireworld Supernova 6 playing AIFF files from iTunes. nStream at the time was also quite rudimentary. AFAIK it still doesn't offer in-track navigation, which makes it unacceptable for me personally. Others don't find this to be a great issue.

To be fair, ripping is quite an easy thing once you've spent a bit of time looking into it. For this reason I question the sense of investing considerable sums into a Naim ripping/server solution, when an equally good (or even better software wise) solution can be had for a fraction of that cost. Unless money is not a consideration my view is that many people would be better off investing available funds into buying a better source (streamer or nDAC) and better amplification. Of course to some there will be valid reasons for choosing a Naim ripping/server solution and that's fair enough. However, simply repeating the mantra "Naim streamers are optimised for Wave and Naim servers offer the best sound quality" is not very helpful.

ATB

tp

Claus, nothing wrong with WAV tagging - infact it is one of the the grand daddies of media file meta data going right back to the intial creation of the format in the late 1980s, but remember the Uniteserve doesnt insert tags into the file so if it aint there it cant be read.... by anything. Unitiserve keeps its seperate database of all the metadata.

[PS Unless there has been a very recent Unitserve software change]

Simon

Claus

Hi Claus,

Yes, you are right nServe offers in track navigation, one big benefit compared to nStream. It was and probably still is the more developed app. It has been mentioned by others here on the forum that Naim are planning to converge the two and just have one app in future, so that functionality and performance are the same for all products. Phil also stated at some point in the past that Naim are developing a transcoding function for the Naim Servers that would allow users to transcode wave files into mp3 files (not sure about AAC or other file formats) to use on MP3 players. I would imagine that AAC will be on the cards some time in the future as well, given the popularity of IOS devices. This might go some way to alleviate heihei's iPod/iPhone issues. Might not solve the Sonos issue though....

tp

Claus, indeed, I thought you were wanting to use your WAV files elsewhere. 

Simon

 I have no need for low quality copies currently.  On the other hand the only thing we know about the next firmware upgrade for the servers is that this will be an option.

Claus

I have the same experience, works like a charm with NDS and no problem at all with tagging etc. If you like to keep it simple and just working so  you can listen to music instead the US+NDS combo is the first choice for you.

//jonas

I was in the same position. Easier is better in my world and US + NDS is as easy as it gets.

//jonas

Hi Clive,

Can you indulge me in a n-stream of thinking on the u-Serve

I also came at the streaming option from a personal point off view that I wanted;

1. Ease of use and Simplicity (Turnkey).

2. Sound quality.

3. Non-computer derived streaming (as in turning on a PC or Mac).

4. Cost.

The above criteria, and in that order, were/are my four main motivations for my digital audio streaming library. The one main advantage for me at the time over some other people who were starting their streaming project was that I had not ripped any of my 600 cd collection, so effectively I was starting with a blank canvass. This made my life easier as I did not have my music collection scattered over various file formats, although my wife and I do have a reasonable collection in I Tunes. However, we considered that the I Tunes library could stay within that format for my wife's IPod, I do not travel with my music preferring to read instead, so criteria 3 could be pushed down the list for example.

Hence, my early decision to go with the u-Serve as the heart of my system, ripping to WAV, storing and serving all in one box. The main benefit off this product is that it is free of doubt and fickleness. What I mean from this is that you don't need to spend endless hours worrying whether it serves you high quality audio files efficiently because it does. No worries regarding which file format is the best, which ripping software/engine is the best (including fiddling with countless options in the software) and whether your server is optimised for serving high quality audio files, Naim have ticked all those boxes for you.

My music is now secure in a HiFi environment rather than a computer environment, that was more important to me than cost. Additionally, the u-Serve works flawlessly for me, even over WiFi and in my view is prejudiced toward due to its perceived high price. Yet people will spend far more on other aspects of their music library system. 

I am one of those that is yet to be totally convinced on the 'source first' mantra, from my limited experience its more 'balance' and I believe the entire chain should be considered in equal measure and that includes ripping and serving. And also why I neglected the NDac as a source opting for the ND5 as I felt that the u-Serve feeding the ND5 over Ethernet sounded cleaner than it feeding the NDac over SPDIF.

I guess my point is there are many criteria for obtaining a digital audio streaming library, that criteria is derived from a motivation or attitude toward how we want to listen to music, therefore we end up with many viable solutions, the u-Serve caters for all of those solutions relative to cost. Your choice on the U-Serve is inherently safe.

Happy hunting.

Jason.

Thanks for the reassuring words from both Jonas and Jason. I guess I'll share a few more thoughts.

I am comfortable with PCs, having used them since the early 90s, but I am not a computer nerd. I like them to work for me without hassle - I get frustrated and angry when they don't work and I cannot see why! I like the concept of uPnP - I want plug and play, not plug, play, unplug, diagnose, try something else etc. (I have been there in the days of Windows 3.1!)

I have a large number of CDs, none of which have yet been ripped (I hate that word) to PC other than those I have uploaded to iTunes for playing on my phone. Those are in MP3 format which I don't want to use on my main music system. My music server and disc drive need to be other than my PC.

The investment in the UnitiServe is relatively small given the simplicity I seek and especially so when considered in the context of purchasing a 555PS and NDS at the same time.

So I think with the reassuring words of Jonas, Jason, Bart et al to underpin my reasoning, I shall still look forward to the arrival of the kit. It will be odd though without the CD player... And I have to say that when I went for the demo I tried my CDS2 with the 555PS and almost stopped at that point!

CB

These were my considerations, in the same order!

I too started with uServe into the Naim Dac, then added an XPS-2 for the Dac, but still was not satisfied with my overall sound.  So I bundled up the Dac and XPS-2 and traded them towards an NDS and a 555PS.  (Still using the uServe as my UPnP server.) Voila!

To do the experiment properly, I should have added the 555PS first to the Dac.  Maybe I would have stopped there.  I will never know.  I am far from concluding that there is inherently something wrong with using the uServe as a player.  And given the huge price difference of NDS/555PS vs Dac/XPS-2, I am rather glad that I can hear a difference.

Hi Jason

Yes.  You can never discount listening tests and I, too, wonder 1) to what extent the guts of a dac in the streamers streamers has evolved since the introduction of ndac and 2) whether there will be a reference ndac.  However, given that dacs have been around for a very long time now, and the ndac costing £2k, I do wonder how much more performance there is to squeeze out of the circuitry!  I don't think compromise was on the agenda when the ndac was built.

Rhod Sutton

Jason, system synergy is important and the nDAC is demanding of partnering equipment. The NDAC architecture is common to the NDX and NDS; not sure about ND5, but there are changes in hardware implementation between models.. and these have a change on presentation.

The NDAC reference especially with off board PSU is very wide band and dynamic, and in the right system is the crown (IMO) of the Naim stable as I have commented on many times.

However in the wrong system/ room it can sound 'btoken' and the more curtailed sound of the NDX and perhaps ND5 works better, albeit ultimately less realistic/insightful. But there is nothing wrong with this... As I say this is system synergy and the more high end you go IMO the more important this becomes... And it really reinforces the value of listening first in your environment.

The new reference NDAC that we refer to is wishful thinking.. And we / I hope combines the extreme finess of the NDS with the organic vigour and life of the NDAC... But I am not holding my breath.. So for now you chose your psentation; digital finesse, or organic vigour.. 

Simon