Margaret Thatcher 1925-2013
Posted by: Tony2011 on 08 April 2013
Loved or loathed, no denial, the woman was a force to be reckoned with.
RIP
Why a publicly funded ceremonial funeral? Couldn't they privatise the whole thing and put it out to the lowest bidder in her honour?
OK, I stole it but it's still funny.
steve
Stick the old bag on a Liverpool-Birkenhead ferry,half way accross lob her overboard......................job done.
mista h
Love or hate Maggie's actual policies and actions, one has to respect politicians (like her) who have the courage of their convictions, rather than the wishy-washy populist idiots we have running the place now.
Hitler and Stalin were pretty strong characters with the courage of their convictions. Judge people on what what they do, and what results from what you do.
Thatcher is rightly seen by many as uncaring, divisive and frankly borderline megalomaniac. She destroyed large sections of the UK economic base through her narrow minded London-centric thinking. We are still paying the price today when, with a 30 percent depreciation of the pound, we still cant export anything anyone wants to buy.
Blair was/is her successor and look how that ended up (hopefully in a war crimes court). Cameron / Osborne are as bad.. Right wing Tory doctrine gone mad, and beggar the majority of the population.
A quote was made about the right to buy your own property under thatchers government. Was this a good thing? I am not sure. I own my house well the bank does but we should look at the reasons behind this idea of buying your own property. There was the ongoing battle between thatchers right wing ideal and the unions left wing beliefs. To crush the unions completely she needed a populace that had the threat of losing it all looming over their heads so she came up with the idea of making house buying so enticing, with that in place, people were reluctant to go out on strike which in turn weakened the unions. I think unions are a great thing and very important. Without them where would we be, poorer education, poorer standard of living, longer working hours, less pay, and the threat of losing your job on a whim ( I have personal experience of this in a company who didn't have a union). I hate tory politics always have and also hate labour too. Capatalism just doesn't work, the rich are still getting richer and the poor are poorer, sadly there doesn't seem to be an alternative at the moment. Greed is what thatcher promoted and greed is what she got and we are all the worse for it.
Love or hate Maggie's actual policies and actions, one has to respect politicians (like her) who have the courage of their convictions, rather than the wishy-washy populist idiots we have running the place now.
Hitler and Stalin were pretty strong characters with the courage of their convictions. Judge people on what what they do, and what results from what you do.
Thatcher is rightly seen by many as uncaring, divisive and frankly borderline megalomaniac. She destroyed large sections of the UK economic base through her narrow minded London-centric thinking. We are still paying the price today when, with a 30 percent depreciation of the pound, we still cant export anything anyone wants to buy.
Blair was/is her successor and look how that ended up (hopefully in a war crimes court). Cameron / Osborne are as bad.. Right wing Tory doctrine gone mad, and beggar the majority of the population.
+1 good riddance!
Yes Tony. But it is easy to fool the voting public. After all, I voted for Tony Blair.
don, cold downtown York
Colin L,
"She destroyed large sections of the UK economic base through her narrow minded London-centric thinking. We are still paying the price today when, with a 30 percent depreciation of the pound, we still cant export anything anyone wants to buy."
The reason a lot of manufacturing was lost was due to short sighted management & corrupt unions (not workers).
The only control a government could have over this is to have protectionist policies & high import tariffs. Something I would actually support as I am against the free movement of people & goods, like a steam engine a governor is required.
If a business produces goods that people want to buy, at a justifiable price; without getting caught in the mantra of "growth" usually funded by debt; they will succeed.
The race to the bottom with currency debasement will not drive the export market.
Much of the 30% depreciation is caused by the government bailing out failed banks NR, etc. the opposite of real Capitalism.
Yes Tony. But it is easy to fool the voting public. After all, I voted for Tony Blair.
don, cold downtown York
Then vote for someone else. Don't think it's about fooling the public more to do with choice on the table, there are others choices....you sound like an Italian
Jason
Never sure venom is necessary when someone passes. I thought she was a great woman. Others may differ. Sure. Not sure if all this on an audio forum is dignified, or needed.
I didn't like Jimmy Carter. And I may say so now. But when his time comes I will honor his effort as I would any of our other presidents
I presume you are an American. You never had to suffer her policies.
If you were British, you would understand that in this country she is loathed and loved in equal measure. You would also understand why.
She was the most divisive PM of the 20th century, and all but her most blinkered supporters know this.
Crikey - welcome to a dignity-free zone.
Regardless of whether she was liked or not, the death of a person surely deserves a little respect?
Perhaps behave in the dignified way you would expect from others when it's your death....
Ian
Well said mr green. In the 60's and 70's I spent time as auditor at many manufacturing companies and the general standard of management was abysmal. On top of this the unions had a confrontational approach and so the net result was decline. After the war many British companies took engineering equipment taken from the Germans as war reparations, while the Germans re-equipped, so that their engineering quality was superior. UK manufacturing suffered accordingly. Mrs T forced the country to face reality, but there were undeniably hardships as a consequence. Since she left office the Chinese have taken over as the world's manufacturer and that has made it more difficult for all but the very best UK manufacturers to compete on the world stage.
I would however submit that Heseltine's dash for gas, to eliminate the coal industry, was a mistake taking the longer view. We would be much better placed with a thriving coal mining sector provided either the green lobby could be overcome or clean coal technology could be made to work. The destruction of the coal industry was primarily caused by Scargill, who caused the government to decide that the risk of that industry bringing the country to its knees was too great.
Now we depend on foreigners to let us have the gas we need.
Crikey - welcome to a dignity-free zone.
Regardless of whether she was liked or not, the death of a person surely deserves a little respect?
Perhaps behave in the dignified way you would expect from others when it's your death....
Ian
What do you want? A series of gushing encomia?Hagiography?
She was a public figure - nobody forced her into politics - who received as much abuse in life as she has in death. People are entitled to an opinion. This isn't North Korea, where showing"insufficient" grief would get you into very serious trouble.
I agree Ian.
A lot of posts above remind me of;
Power To The People Comrade.
Well said mr green. In the 60's and 70's I spent time as auditor at many manufacturing companies and the general standard of management was abysmal. On top of this the unions had a confrontational approach and so the net result was decline. After the war many British companies took engineering equipment taken from the Germans as war reparations, while the Germans re-equipped, so that their engineering quality was superior. UK manufacturing suffered accordingly. Mrs T forced the country to face reality, but there were undeniably hardships as a consequence. Since she left office the Chinese have taken over as the world's manufacturer and that has made it more difficult for all but the very best UK manufacturers to compete on the world stage.
I would however submit that Heseltine's dash for gas, to eliminate the coal industry, was a mistake taking the longer view. We would be much better placed with a thriving coal mining sector provided either the green lobby could be overcome or clean coal technology could be made to work. The destruction of the coal industry was primarily caused by Scargill, who caused the government to decide that the risk of that industry bringing the country to its knees was too great.
Now we depend on foreigners to let us have the gas we need.
So, that's all good then.
BTW, Scargill didn't cause the destruction of the coal industry. He very foolishly walked into a well-set trap, constructed with minute planning by the government. Thanks to his short-sighted obduracy, he split the miners and effectively betrayed his membership. The Thatcher government intended to destroy the mining industry - don't forget, the miners were the "shock troops" of the union movement - from the very start. It's all there in the public domain.
I agree with your point about UK manufacturing in the 1970s though - it was pretty poor.
She was a public figure - nobody forced her into politics - who received as much abuse in life as she has in death. People are entitled to an opinion. This isn't North Korea, where showing"insufficient" grief would get you into very serious trouble.
Kevin, the last thing you need right now is another cup of coffee....!
Mr Wand, I to think coal is a great resource, my Aga runs on coal!
Yes I agree that the "dash to gas" was a mistake, however we still have the reserves.
If as much effort went into "robotising" mining as creating "drones", we could have a very safe coal mining industry. Likewise clean burn for coal is not an insurmountable problem.
ATB d
She was a public figure - nobody forced her into politics - who received as much abuse in life as she has in death. People are entitled to an opinion. This isn't North Korea, where showing"insufficient" grief would get you into very serious trouble.
Kevin, the last thing you need right now is another cup of coffee....!
Eh? I have a cold so I am currently subsisting on orange juice... 
Celebrating the old bag's death is not really to my taste but people are entitled to do so, if that's how they feel.
It's a free country, after all.
Maggie...................
Some people loved her, some people hated her. To my mind, some things she did were superb, others were a disaster and yet others plain spiteful. It would take a hundred books and a thousand PhD theses to cover her existence in any detail so any comments made here will be trivial piffle in reality. Never-the-less, my initial comments …..
She broke the power of the unions and the likes of Scargill who were crippling this country, she stood up to dictators like Galtieri, she showed that Britain had the determination and ability to deal with apparent giants such as Russia (they weren’t actually so powerful as they were portrayed) and she put nationalised dinosaur businesses such as trains, planes airports, gas, electricity, water and telecoms back into the hands of millions of people.
What we, the people, have subsequently done with these things is our own silly fault. We have had a number of successive Labour governments and as a nation, we have had plenty of time and opportunity to rectify the disasters and redress the spite. So to all those who complain on these issues, I say“look to yourselves, or your fellow humans, and bloody well sort it out NOW ! – if it really is an issue”
One of her worst legacies, IMHO, was to create the sense that it was every man (or woman) for himself, and that it was alright to be successful at the expense of other people. This immoral (IMHO) concept seems to pervade much of Britain today. Admittedly it’s an international immorality and global enterprises such as Starbucks have no qualms about embracing it. And of course it was always in existence even pre-Maggie, but in Britain she gave it the air of acceptable respectability.
Cheers
Don
Politics aside (as if!) I'm unsure why she gets a state funeral.
I could understand a memorial service perhaps but why the full fandango-described by somebody today as going to be much like that which Lady Di received.
Hmm.
What exactly are the qualifications? Winston Churchill was a unifying national leader but Mrs T? Will Blair be lobbying for his slot already? Actually I think he hopes to be elected Pope sometime which may change things.
Bruce
Bruce,
I don't thimk it is a State Funeral, I think its a Cerimonial Funeral with full Military Honours
Cheers
Don
Let me start off by saying I don't see any merit in celebrating someones death.
Yes she was patriotic, witness the Falkland Islands war.
Yes British industry (management and unions) needed a shake up.
Lack of investment, weak management, poor work ethic.
Some of her views had validity, but her approach was disasterous.
However:
I do understand the anti-Thatcher sentiment.
She preyed on human selfishness and greed. City bankers first, sale of council houses (witness current social housing shortage)
Yes, there were some union leaders who abused their position and put their political beliefs before their members. And this did British industry no favours. The problem was that in her blind desire to punish these individuals she was prepared to destroy communities and sacrifice the livelihood of innocent workers. As a result she destroyed the industrial base of Britain without any thought of it's consequences. The Germans did a far better job that she in restructuring and balancing the economy.
The things I cannot forgive her for ( speaking from personal experience ) are:
1. Tagging miners as " the enemy within". Not all mine workers were terrorists; certainly not my grandfather ( scars on his back, walking 3 miles to get to the coal face, working for 8 hours on his stomach in an 18" coal seam before walking 3 miles back to the pit shaft.)
2. The creation of the Special Patrol Group (Thatcher's Thugs).
Yes, they were strike breakers in uniform (no I.D. badges). Pushing strikers into the road, boasting about their wage packets "keep striking lads, we want the overtime". Using excessive force, fact (Orgreave coke plant)
Bruce,
I don't thimk it is a State Funeral, I think its a Cerimonial Funeral with full Military Honours
Cheers
Don
OK. Still more than Ted Heath? Harold Wilson? Any other ex-PMs?
Interesting article on BBC website about what may have been if Mt was never elected. Nuanced commentary from someone who has researched the subject.