Question for Simon in Suffolk

I don't know what Simon will say but I will be interested to read it!

I have everything plugged into one Netgear switch (I need 8 ports), and only the switch plugged into my home cable modem/router.  I am not sure if this is best, but my guess was that it is.

Bart,

Let me explain in layman terms. Just imagine the router functions like a receptionist of a company. The ports behind are like the number of rooms available. The network switches are like partitions inside the rooms to accommodate more staff.

The "best practice" is to group/ allocate the relevant personnel e.g. HR to a room and Sales to another room. So when a guest step into the company, the receptionist can efficiently direct him/her to the respective rooms. Secondly, if there are any argument or dispute (network collision) among them, they are contained in that room. In the home network environment the impact is minimal unless we are talking about many nodes/ huge data transfer in every few min or so.

We being hi-fi folk, the idea of letting routers route and switches switch is a comfortable convention to consider using, analogous to breaking out the various hi-fi functions to the maximum-possible-number of components.  At least it makes your network easier to understand.

Not trying to be ironic, but it sounds a little, I know.

My recommendation is, once you outgrow all leads into the router, limit yourself to just one lead, from your new master switch, into the router.

Good luck.

Nick

Yeah it is pretty straight forward plug and play for most home wired setup unless you want redundancy or security in place. Let's wait for the Pro's reply

Hi Bill, sorry for the delay.. Been busy with clients.

You mento a Cisco router.. I assumeyoyu are using a Cisco 800 series router with 4 switch portsa incorporated?

Adding a switch such as an unmanaged Netgear to the switch port is fine at the network level. 

If you ate using a Cisco router with a little Netgar you will of course need to ensure the Cisco port settings that connect to the Netgear are not set for mac port security or trunking..

Now from an audo point of view, I have found my recently bought unmanaged  Netgear gigabit switch *very* electrically noisy.  I think the noise comes the SMPS, but it does radiate along attached network leads.

Therefore if your Netgear is like mine, and that is an if.. You might "prefer' the sound  of connecting your NDS to the Cisco router switch port [using a higher quality PSU] via a long patch lead, rather than connect to the Netgear. An alternate might be to use a LAN isolator if plugging the NDS into the Netgear and keep the Netgear SMPS well away dorm your audio equipment..

Simon

Hi Simon,

Many thanks for your reply. I do have one more port on the Cisco, and you are correct it being an 800, so will use that for the NDS as you suggest and use the switch for my freesat box. I did not realise you could continue to use the router ports. Bit concerned about your comments regarding trunking and mac thingy's but will cross that bridge when I get the switch. Many thanks to one and all who replied. Caftan, it sounds as though it may not be quite as simple as plug and play but we will no doubt find out. Thanks lots

Bill

I think I hear opposing views here.

Option 1 -- plug all devices into the same switch, and plug the switch into a port on the home modem/router.  This results in only one of the ports on the home modem/router being used.

Option 2 -- fill up the ports on the home modem/router first and then use a switch for excess.  This results in all of the ports of the home modem/router being used.

I have been doing Option 1.  But without technical reason other than I assume that my Netgear unmanaged switch is 'better' than my isp-supplied router/modem.

I am interested to know more about your Cisco 800 router.  Which particular model do you have?

I am using a Virgin Superhub in router mode.  It has been OK but we have a large house and have just installed structured cabling and the list of IP-based equipment keeps growing so it's increasing the weak link in our network. 

I realised some time ago that I was going to have to put the Superhub into modem mode and install a good router.  I have heard good things about Cisco but the choice of models seems rather confusing.  I will probably get a specialist to advise and install but I always like to have at least half an idea of the right answer before I do this so will be interested to hear what you've got.

Further to my posting a few minutes ago, with our structured cabling the electricians installed a big (72 port) switch through which all our data connections will pass.  I can't off the top of my head say what brand or model it is. 

Would it be a good idea to install a separate (smaller) switch for music-related cables, connected directly to the router (whichever one I eventually get) and by-passing the other big switch?  I'm think that this would keep the music traffic out of the way of everything else, and it could be a better-quality switch if necessary.

Hi Endless.....

I am the last person in the world to advize on anything to do with networking that is why I asked Simon for advice, I even told him the wrong router. I have a Cisco but model WRT610n but it does have 4 ports. I always read Simons responses in the hope that I will learn something and the one thing I have picked up is there is no advantage in splitting your network. I have the Virgin modem/hub also but again picked up from the forum that this is not the greatest bit of kit on the market hence my Cisco purchase chosen after reading reviews. Sorry that this won't help much but hopefully someone will give you an answer.

Cheers

Bill

Bill, as far as trunking and mac port address security - these are off by default so unless you have fiddled here you will be fine.

In the default state it is plug and play.

My advice about whether to plug into a noisy Netgear switch (or Internet Router for that matter)  purely made on the electrical noise these (or at least my) little Netgear devices make - and this noise affects my audio and FM tuner - my data on my network is fine.. (Though certain Netgear ADSL routers are sensitive to RFI including from their own SMPS noise and will reguarly disconnect with ADSL 2 - one reason why working extended hours with clients right now)

Bart - there are no conflicting view - they are the same from a network point of view - however the switchports on a cheap consumer internet router' are often inferior in terms of buffering and back plane throughput and so you can be better off using a seperate switch which is my usual advice on this forum.

However if that seperate switch is inferior from an RFI / electrical noise point fo view you have a challange..

A quality edge or internet router will usually have high quality configurable switchports - such as in the Cisco 800 series devices. They also seem to have a higher quality SMPS and if you take one apart you see they have extensive faraday cage screening around the circuitry inside to keep RFI emssions at bay. Here there is no real advantage of using a seperate switch apart from phyical reasons.

I also find Cisco 2960 series catalyst switches electrically quiet and rock solid and - if you wish - highly configurable.

So with premium audio equipment you do owe it to yourself to use quality ancillary equipment. Would you put chip fat into your Bentley fuel tank? Alas I think the Hifi magazines miss this important area and focus on boutique cabling etc - which although I am sure can give a quality capability - is all undermined if the basics aren't right with a cheap bundled broadband router with a 'buzzing' noisy SMPS, or worst still Ethernet over Powerline etc

Simon

Thanks Simon!

Endlessness... by the very nature of using a switch you are seperating the network traffic apart. If you have a big switch - assuming not really electrically noisy - which is probably less likely in a larger appliance.. then a single switch is fine if you don't mind having all the ethernet cable runs.

Mind you as I have discovered these  new very flat CAT 6a and 5e cables that you tuck under carpet or skirting board are fantastic, so having long leads across your house is not a logisitic/domestic nightmare anymore.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Very many thanks for those reassuring words, there is no way I would have fiddled with the router so confidence is high that all will be well.

Cheers lots,

Bill

Simon,

Can the switching noise emitting from the smps be reduced if a linear power supply is used instead?

It is that simple in the network perspective, it's either it work or don't. It became complicated when you associated it with audio. Just like some people can hear what a piece of sticker, tweaks did on their setup and some don't. The conclusion is dont lose sleep over it. Do some trial and error yourself to see which sound best to your ears. 

Hi skwan, a linear PSU produces significantly less noise than a poorly designed SMPS so yes it should help.

Caftan, just needed to check that Bill hadn't changed the config either via IOS or the web tool, as in which case it may definitely not be plug and play, and power cycling won't clear it. The 800 series edge routers contain managed switch ports.

Cheap consumer stuff is however plug and play at switch level.

Simon

Thanks Simon! 

Hi Simon,

I had worked with a couple of Cisco 806 series before and they were mainly deployed on small offices. Are those routers being given by your ISP for home use? I recall the configuration are not as straight forward as compared to other home routers. Most managed switches I had worked with are also plug and play by default till you put in the configuration. Anyway Bill's router is a Linksys wireless router and I don't think they come with those advance features.

Hi caftan,

You are correct, my router is a wireless WRT 610. As I read Simons post and he mentioned the Cisco 800 with 4 ports I thought that was mine, it is a Cisco and it has 4 ports but proves one must not assume. Hopefully when I receive my NDS and connect everything up it will all prove to be plug and play. If I have problems I am sure I can count on the good folk on the forum for some guidance. Will let you know how I get on. It will be 4 weeks tomorrow since I placed the order for the NDS so I'm sure it will arrive soon.

Cheers

Bill

Bill, in my case I plugged the NDS into its power supply, connected the ethernet cable, turned it on, and within a minute it was on the network and ready to play music.  Totally seamless and disappointingly easy

For my main system, the desire to keep all computer hardware out of the room (more for aesthetics than electrical pollution) lead me to a solution where I have the cat5 cable in the wall, and just plug the NDS into an RJ45 outlet in the wall.  The switch and server are far away.  No electronics/computers to offend electrically or visually   For my second system (Qute), it resides in an area with a ton of other hardware -- my server, router, nas, cable box, dvd player, Apple TV, etc etc.  I use a higher-end Netgear consumer (unmanaged) 8 port switch, and do not worry about its power supply as there are so many electronic items in its vicinity.  I can't isolate the 2nd system and so don't even try.

Bill, no worries. Do keep us posted. Cheers!