Turning electrical things "off"

I think it's all right to turn it off. Just let it warm up a bit before each use for optimum sonic performance.

How much does your TV license cost a year? How much pleasure, if any,  do you get out of it?

How much pleasure do you get from your Naim "system"? As for your friend, I think a visit to the doctor's is in order unless he also owns the same TV and Naim system as you do.

Hi Kev,

It sounds like The Green Party have gotcha. Join us in doing our bit to destroy the planet.

But seriously though; I don't run a dishwasher or a tumble-dryer, so I leave my Hi-Fi kit powered-up with gay abandon. Naim kit does give a more consistent performance if left powered, and electronic components are more likely to fail with a lot of thermal cycling - effectively regularly warming and cooling by being turned on and off.

How long before EEC regulations force all non-essential electrical equipment to go into a low power consumption state when not in use? Hopefully Naim have a solution to that.

John.

...or at least away of overriding it?  

I believe there is already an EU directive & I would be interested to hear how Naim have not (it appears) followed it.  Maybe the owner operated “off” switch & no standby mode means they need not comply   .............  so I guess thats the way to override it. 

1275/2008 sets out the requirements for standby mode and off mode of household electrical and electronic equipment. The list appears to me to apply to most of the things you have plugged in to power sockets in your home.

1275/2008 Directive Summary   ….

As of Dec 2009

Power consumption in off or standby mode  =<1w

Power consumption in standby mode & displays information =<2w

As of Dec 2012

Power consumption in off or standby mode =<0.5w

Power consumption in standby mode & displays information =<1w

I turn everything in the house off and unplug things without a mains switch such as wall-wart power supplies, in every instance except the fridge, when I leave the house.

I have never worn out a mains switch or had a piece of electrical equipment fail as a result in decades, and consequently I have gratifyingly low electricity bills.

I have never found that it makes much difference to mature replay components whether they are left on all the time, or turned on only when actually in use.

Waste is waste, and a person can perform as many logic somersaults as he or she wants - the truth remains that waste is waste. And the people who waste finite resources are wasters.

Farmer

An interesting response; not quite what I expected. Unless Naim have a really good reason why their kit has to be left on, I'll keep doing the turn it off and let it warm up strategy. I see no point it wasting the power/money and the enjoyment will still be the same.

Thank you all for your input.

Kevin.

Leaving aside the question of whether or not Naim equipment sounds better if left permanently powered up - and opinions do vary on this - to me it goes completely against the grain to leave anything powered up or in standby mode if it is not being used. There is a fire risk, however small, and it is wasteful of electricity and money. It bemuses me why some folk leave their TV sets permanently on standby. Is it really so very difficult or inconvenient to walk over to a switch in order to turn on or off as required? Judging by gadgets on sale such as remote control sockets etc. it would seem for many people the answer is a definite 'yes'! This is truly the age of the 'couch potato' - no wonder so many people suffer ill health through lack of exercise.

For my part I would now be very uncomfortable buying a piece of hi-fi equipment where the manufacturer stated that it needed to be left permanently powered up in order to perform as intended. This makes the purchase of any Naim equipment a rather difficult issue for me. I may possibly be in a position to buy a DACV1/NAP100 in the not too distant future and I know that this would be my ideal set. But I could never bring myself to leave it permanently 'on'. We shall see.

Peter

The issue has much to do with the charge and discharge of capacitors related to power on and off. Basically, it has to do with wear on the electronic components versus standby energy consumption.

Based on what I have read here, the prevalent thought is that powered-on defeats on-off in the long-run, especially when considering cost/effort/energy involved in the recapping of a product.

It is to be expected that a recapping [and general service] may be advantageous after a decade or more. How long would you expect a Naim piece to go before a recapping assuming that it is switched on and off once a day?

Are the capacitors in Naim equipment so different from those fitted in other domestic electronic and electrical consumer items?

I doubt it. But even so, I have some items by me that have been switched on and off most days in some cases for decades. The oldest electronic thing I have is a Tivoli Radio, from about 2001, which has been switched on two or three times a day for most of this time. It goes really well.

If the reason to leave Naim on all the time is steady quality, I think that can be discounted on many of the models. Certainly it is not necessary on the DAC V1 NAP 100 combo.

And I doubt it can be justified on the basis of cost between the difference of service interval - if one exists at all - between an item that is kept off when not in use, compared to one that is left on all the time.

As I said earlier, "Waste is waste, and those who waste are wasters."

Farmer

Peter,

   Are you saying that you do not currently own any Naim hifi, and may not buy it in the future, based on the power on issue?

Farmer,

    If you consider the eco view and good earth concept, then just looking at the energy use is only a minute part of the equation.

Assuming the need for more frequent service, recapping, etc, then one has to consider the energy and environmental costs of the increased manufacture and worldwide shipping of these goods, with all their additional energy costs and carbon emissions, etc.

It may well be that keeping powered up, and extending product life is actually more "green" in the holistic view

One has to wonder why Naim fits on/off switches to its electronics at all if (a) the use of same causes damage to internal components, and (b) switching off results in failure to achieve optimum performance.

Better surely to omit the switch which is redundant if Naim's advice is followed and thereby reduce cost.

Personally I have never experienced a problem with any electrical equipment caused by the use of an on/off switch. If one is fitted then presumably it is intended to be used.

Peter 

FWIW I leave my NAC282 powered on via the Hicap and leave my NDAC powered on. To me there is definitely a SQ benefit in doing this. When I go away for  any length of time I power down. When I return it can take upto 24 hours to sound great again. 

Simon

I do not currently own any Naim equipment due to financial constraints but I have owned it in the past for around twenty-five years.

The 'leaving on' thing is a dilemma for me. Something I am very unhappy about and would not now do, though I have done so in the past as I did perceive a worthwhile performance gain from doing so. I would not buy the DAC V1/NAP100 if it did not sound 'right' when not left permanently 'on'.

I shall shortly have the chance to listen to a DACV1/NAP100 belonging to someone who's opinions I have a great deal of respect for. I would love to buy one if I can afford it and if it doesn't need to be left powered up to sound excellent.

Peter

For this to be true, you would need to demonstrate that the service interval was reduced from the decade or more which is often quoted. I see no proviso that the interval should be shorter if the on off switch is used daily.

On this point rests your argument, and I don't believe that you can show the evidence. I am quite happy to be corrected on this if you do have the evidence.

Farmer

I am also leaving all the devices on, it's clear that switching on and off is problematic for the sound. I am only switching off when I am gone for a longer period and in extreme cases of thunderstorm.

What Bert said. We used to have an XPS2 with an appetite for fuses on start up. It got through two or  three a year. If our system sounded no different or acceptable when powered on from cold it would be wasteful to leave it on all the time. It tends not to, so we do. From a cold start such as an overnight power down or longer, we're talking around five days until it doesn't *seem* to sound any different. Very occasionally, a power cycle can cheer it up it it's gone dull or unmusical. I don't think there's an issue here. If we object to what we consider to be wantonly wasteful for no good reason, we buy elsewhere. If we can't hear a difference we save the juice.

My Uniti and Qute did originally take some warm-up time but two years later it rarely takes more than 10 minutes to come on song. I always switch off after use and don't consider this any sort of trade off.

The argument about equipment longevity if the power is left on has long been quoted and not just in hi-fi terms. The more modern the device the less susceptible it will be to frequent switching as components are designed to withstand this. And we are talking about frequent switching causing problems, not once or twice a day. Its a somewhat outdated 'fact' that keeps being circulated - just like the one about it taking more power to switch on a light bulb than to leave it on. It does indeed but it takes a fraction of a second to turn a light on.

Higher echelon Naim components may well sound better left switched on but as long as you're happy with the sound  a few minutes after switch on why sweat it?  Save the £30 and buy some more music, downloaded obviously to keep manufacturing energy consumption to a minimum. Sorry couldn't resist.

Andy

I'd like to thank all of you for your views. I asked for input without any axe to grind, so I'm pleased to have received your varied views. What I find interesting is the lack of official input from Naim itself, with specific reference to the Qute. Or am I being naïve?

I realise that Naim may recommend some of their devices being left "on", and recognise that "warm" kit often sounds better than when started from cold. Me; I'm 58 years old and cannot hear much difference so I'll use the switch; my choice. What really matters, is that however we use the kit, we really enjoy it, which I most definitely do. Thank you all.

Kevin.

I suppose  both Naim ps's and power amps have bigger caps than e.g. a streamer or server. With an 3 way active system I do not turn it off unless I leave for a longer time. I am a happy waster not owning a car probably makes me much less of a waster than others anyway.

d90myg,

That's exactly the sort of information I was hoping for! Thanks very much. It also sort of explains why there is an on/off switch in the first place.

It's a small box and the back is a bit crowded, so I was surprised there is a switch, unless, of course it's for routine use. But you never really know until you ask!

Thank you all.

Kevin