Seeking Advice for Upgrade

Posted by: lhau on 30 January 2011

Hello, I am a new Naim user. I recently bought a NaimUniti with the Naim speaker cable connecting to my ProAc Studio 110.

While the system is very enjoyable, but somehow I feel it is not as resolving as I thought it is capable of. I am beginning to wonder if the speaker is not of the same class as the Naim box and is letting it down, or if it is something else.

So I am wondering if I should get a pair of the PMC DB1. First I want to say, I like the ProAc sound in general, it is sweet sounding, and in fact I like it more than the higher end ProAc, which tend to have quite a lack of bass and rhythm comparatively. The studio is pretty balanced in this regard I think.

Secondly, I am wondering if I should get the upgrade of power amplification (not sure 200 or 250?), though this defeats my original intent of one box system......

So I summarize my questions below:

1. Is the ProAc Studio 110 outclassed by the system?
2. Is the PMC DB1 a good idea, or any other suggestion given I like the balance of the ProAc? (I can use only bookshelf unfortunately)
3. Would I get improvement from upgrading the power amplification? I tend to logically think this only matters if the current amp is really bad or that it can harder drive the speaker load? So in this case should not matter that much?
4.  More importantly, what is the educated guess which step would improve my system more? Change the speaker or adding an amplifier?
5. And this is for more long term.... Is getting the power amp an overkill of Uniti since its preamp is not as good as others? Is it a good idea to get preamp + amp and run from the lineout of Uniti? Or if it is better to drop out the Uniti at that point in time since it again is being outclassed?

Many thanks for your patience and help. AS you know, the Naim upgrade bug is really bugging me......
Posted on: 30 January 2011 by Jaseamondo
I've not heard the studio 110's however I did have the Tablette 2000 signatures which the studio 110's are basically the replacement for. I heard the Tablette's on the end of various Naim equipment throughout the years as I went along the upgrade path, I can honestly say that they are a great little speakers capable of sounding way better than they have any right to. The speakers respond rather well to upgrades and are outstanding on the end of cds3/252/250.2 which is as high up the Naim range as I've personally heard them on. Maybe other speakers might be to more of your liking with your current set up, that's for you to decide, but I'd say by no means are the studio 110 outclassed.

regards Jason
Posted on: 30 January 2011 by Michael Chare
If you want small speakers then I suggest that you try the Harbeth P3ESRs much better than the PMC DB1s (imho)
Posted on: 30 January 2011 by Tog
The addition of a Nap 200 for my Uniti was one of the best decision I have made - the difference in SQ is amazing and i recommend a home demo. The Uniti makes a simply brilliant streamer / preamp.

It is not a reflection of the Uniti's own amplification but the result of adding a superb power amp.

Tog
Posted on: 02 February 2011 by 0rangutan
Similar to Tog, I have a NAP200 between my Qute and Proac Tablette Ref 8 Signatures.
Sounds fantastic.
Posted on: 07 February 2011 by Oceanis
Hi
I recently rebuilt my kitchen/dining room into one large room. Installed a Uniti and DALI MENTOR MENUET speakers which are wall mounted using their Dali wall stands. We heard the Dali's at the Bristol Hifi show and knew that they would make a good match for the Uniti. We were not disapointed and the sound quality is great. Worth every penny of the £895 cost. At this price and against the wall they shouldn't sound this good. Suggest you audition these at home, a "big" speaker in a small box!
Posted on: 13 February 2011 by lhau
So I guess my best bet is to get the nap2000 and think about speakers later? Btw I wonder if the uniti will get preamp boost from the power unit in nap2000?
Posted on: 13 February 2011 by lhau
Also curious if the power amp section on uniti would shutdown if there is a power amp connected both for quality and energy saving?
Posted on: 13 February 2011 by Tog
Just attach the Nap with the supplied DIN lead and away you go - the Uniti acts purely as a preamp and a brilliant one at that. The difference in sound is remarkable.

Tog

PS Really annoyed that I can't post from my Ipad at the moment - some kind of Java error - when are they going to get this forum to work properly?
Posted on: 14 February 2011 by lhau
Still making up my mind..... I still wonder : 1) if the power amp inside the uniti will waste power trying to amplify things the nap is doing? 2) if anyone tried to bi-amp using the 2 amps now? Guess not a good idea?
Posted on: 14 February 2011 by Tog

Since the Uniti is now acting soley as a pre-amp there may be some redundancy but I wouldn't lose sleep over it - as it has turned out I don't use the dab or CD player but the Uniti still sounds great - especially with the NAP
Look at it this way - look at the price of the NAC 202 and consider the advantages you get with the streamer, digital inputs and n-stream support for the price. Sure you could get a SuperNait but until Naim either produce a SuperNait with streaming or a UPnP/Digital input preamp the Uniti works for me.

The NDX with a preamp built in would be great or a preamp with UPnP -

Otherwise - you could always sell the Uniti get a Qute but I think the Uniti sounds better attached to the NAP.

Tog

PS - You could bi-amp but I'm not a fan - just let the NAP do its job!

Posted on: 14 February 2011 by lhau
Thanks Tog.

I am not concern about duplication of function, more like feeling it is not "green" and also wonder if the energy can be put to good use (Bi-Amp?) but probably not a good idea.

I didn't know Qute sound worst, I would thought it was Uniti - CD and - 20w. I rather expected it to sound the same if attached to an Amp?

Anyways, I hope after this, Uniti -> NAP 200 -> ProAc 110, there won't be any "weak link"....
Posted on: 14 February 2011 by 0rangutan
lhau, I don't think that the Uniti's power amp will just power down automatically when you use an off board power amp.
On the Qute you can configure the power amp to be off under the Settings, Loudspeakers menu.  On earlier software there was no way to do this on a Uniti but I believe that it may have been added in the most recent software release.  Perhaps an up to date Uniti owner could confim?
Posted on: 14 February 2011 by Tog
Probably not much between the two - though I think the Uniti sounds better as a standalone.

I will upgrade if Naim produce a good preamp streamer - until then .....

As for green Naim - not as far as energy consumption - although I don't think the power amp in the Uniti will be used - someone else may be able to answer that - David Dever uses a Uniti with Nap 300 I think.

@ Orangutan -I don't think there is a setting in the Uniti (v3) - at least not one that I could find in the menus and the handbook just says plug it in...

I drive a Land Rover Discovery and although its fuel consumption isn't green - it will be around long after other cars are scrap. Naim kit is built to last and highly recyclable - unlike most of today's electronics that will be landfill after one or two years.

Even the logo is green

EcoTog
Posted on: 14 February 2011 by DeepPurple
Uniti + NAP250 + Unitiserve, Chord Odessy 2 and Proac Response D2. What more could I ask for. Listening room L shaped 26' by - 18'. Attacama HMS-1 stands with loads of Attabites. Also Attacama Equinox Xl pro Se support. Oh yes, and Chord Signature jumpers - just sounds the Dogs.
Posted on: 14 February 2011 by lhau
That is a good point.

I wonder how long will the Uniti & NAP 200 stay with me......
Posted on: 20 February 2011 by lhau
Tog:

I am going to audition and maybe buy the NAP 200 tomorrow. Home demo is not common in my living place.

So, may I ask, how much a difference the NAP 200 makes? I think the Uniti is passive preamp design like the Nait 5i? Anyways. I am just wondering what qualities of the NAP 200 is better and if you can, give me an idea how much an upgrade it is?
Posted on: 20 February 2011 by Tog
Better in just about every way - music sounds richer, bass is tighter, treble is more controlled(especially at low volume) it sounds more like the musicians are in the room especially with good recordings - without the Nap the Uniti sounds very thin by comparison. 

My dealer is very good to me - but the standard price is about £1650 I think.

I doubt if you will regret it - home demo is pointless as you won't let it go back once you have heard the difference.

Tog
Posted on: 20 February 2011 by lhau
It sound like a 200% improvement?



Out of curiosity, tog, are you interested in a 202 preamp upgrade in the future or the ndx network player?
Posted on: 20 February 2011 by Tog
Possibly

I would certainly audition the 202 against the Uniti - but it seems to me the Unit works very well as a pre-amp - the NDX is a possibility in either case.

Tog
Posted on: 21 February 2011 by lhau
Thanks Tog.

The NAP 200 surely is a whole different story. It just give the speakers a much tighter rein and control.

It didn't make it sound louder, the opposite, it makes it much tigher. What was noise is much organized notes. It also magically soften the harshness of the Uniti.

Really a whole different class. It makes the Uniti and the speakers feel outclassed.