Why is internet radio on my Naim network music players unusable?

Posted by: Audiofool on 25 July 2013

The internet radio 320K streams of Radio Paradise and Naim Radio 320K on my Naim gear sounds great... WHEN it works. Unfortunately I can’t listen to internet radio on my Naim network music players because they are constantly stopping and re-buffering. 

 

It’s not my internet speed or connection. Movies streamed via wireless on Apple TV, Netflix etc work great. My Sonos system never buffers via wireless on 320K MOG or Spotify streams. 

 

The problem appears to be Naim’s network music players. I say this because my UnitiServe SSD via a hard wired internet connection plays internet radio just fine with a 100% buffer virtually all the time. Yet a 172 or NDX with the same WIRED connection into the same switch, same network, same internet connection as the UnitiServe SSD will run out of streaming buffer every minute or two. 

 

Why would internet radio on the UnitiServe SSD work almost perfectly while the Naim network music players will not work (for more than a few minutes) using the very same wired connection? Do the Naim network music players not have sufficient buffers? 

Posted on: 31 July 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Ollie, thanks, ok can you look at the opening SYNs at the start of a streaming session and see if ParadiseRadio offers scaling, and see if the NDX offers it. Both peers need to advertise scaling in the opening session SYN to be used.

My thoughts 

A) confirm Naim is offering scaling

B) see if RadioParadise is offering scaling

C) see if a web radio station that has never exhibited the pulsating buffer issue on the Naim is offering scaling.

 

Remember need to check the initial session SYN and SYN,ACK

 

Cheers

Simon

 

Posted on: 31 July 2013 by Peter Dinh
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Ollie, thanks, ok can you look at the opening SYNs at the start of a streaming session and see if ParadiseRadio offers scaling, and see if the NDX offers it. Both peers need to advertise scaling in the opening session SYN to be used.

My thoughts 

A) confirm Naim is offering scaling

B) see if RadioParadise is offering scaling

C) see if a web radio station that has never exhibited the pulsating buffer issue on the Naim is offering scaling.

 

Remember need to check the initial session SYN and SYN,ACK

 

Cheers

Simon

 

Looks like you guys are doing the debug for Naim, great stuff.

Posted on: 31 July 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Ok - I have just setup Wireshark and spanned my NDX port - got a session to Radio Paradise [37.130.228.60] and in the SYN from the NDX there is no TCP option 3 (TCP Scaling) presented to RadioParadise(RP) - at least that I can see - and so Scaling is not used in all the subsequent TCP transfers - and the max window size appears set at 8192 as Ollie says and RP to Naim the window size  appears at 6432 and Naim to RP it appears as 6732 throughout the streaming session - but my buffer is fine.

 

If I am correct about scaling - I can see why upstream congestion or transit congestion may cause throughput issues when the returned ACKs from the NDX are delayed.

It might be a good option to be able to enable Scaling in the settings within the Naim player at least experimentally??

 

Simon

Posted on: 31 July 2013 by olliememate

Simon you got there before me   I found this as well, my UQ presents "no scaling used" and max window 8192 to Radio Paradise in the SYN.

Posted on: 24 April 2014 by n1ikosgi

Hello all. Have recently moved to Singapore and am experiencing this issue now as well. In fact it is worse. Monocle24 (128) has intermittent buffering breaks -around the clock. FluxFM (128 also) exhibits no such issues. None had a problem back in London. My connection back in LON was a face value 20MBps. In Sing its 100MBps. Any solutions for the Unitiqute??

I have to admit I am rather annoyed by the fact that Naim does not respond to this thread, but rather enthusiast/customers try to diagnose the issue. At the end of the day if iradio is not up to scratch, why offer it as an option on a high-end machine?

Posted on: 25 April 2014 by engjoo

I am in Singapore too. The solution is to switch to wifi but of course, I didn't bother and over time, I forgot that there is internet radio on the streamer.

Posted on: 25 April 2014 by Hal

Not in Sg but relatively close by in HK. Even though it is not what is suggested but Wifi seems to have better buffer capability compared to hard wired setup as I checked. Still, no solution. Dropouts recur in every 8 or 9 songs. I have around 200Mb and solid peripherals. I have recently asked my ISP if they  really choke on hi-bitrate streaming audio and was replied "No, Sir".  Culprit should be somewhere else. 

Posted on: 27 April 2014 by n1ikosgi

I do use this wireless in SIN. Unfortunately that does not seem to change much. Needless to say the  320 RP stream from the original question is un-listenable..Sounds like there is no solution -which is a shame as internet radio was one of my key streams now that I am away from home..

Naim, anyone that caters for the Singaporean market could perhaps provide some answers?

Posted on: 10 June 2014 by n1ikosgi

Well, after my best efforts the problem persists. Anything over 128k has buffer pauses. My network speeds are more than adequate - see speedtest grab as I write this..Computers, phones and other 'lesser' devices stream without interruptions. Barring something very specific to Singapore & Naim  iradio, the conclusion I have reached is that the Naimqute is not fit for purpose. It's all great being handbuilt and using great components etc etc, but in the end having a Ferrari with no wheels or steering is just no fun. I now have 2 qutes to go.

Posted on: 10 June 2014 by Nagoya

You have to take this up with Naim. (again?) Contact them and I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of your problem. Thanks!