HDX "Best Match" when ripping CD's

Hi,

I don't own any Naim server, so this isn't from experience, but I just spotted this in the manual, under section 6.1 The Ripping Process :

Note: An internet connection is necessary for the HDX to identify CDs and download their artist, title, track listing and artwork data. If the HDX is unable to access the internet while ripping, it will initially interrogate a small internal database for the CD’s associated data. If the CD is not found on the internal database, only the ripped audio data and its identification code will be stored. Manual input of CD data or further AMG and FreeDB database requests can be made via the Desktop Client application once an internet connection is re-established.

 

Note: Right-click on the album name in the Desktop Client interface to request an online database lookup manually.

But then, I have no idea if that offers you any kind of choice, or if it follows the very same process you've just described.

HTH

Maurice

Thanks Maurice, that is clear but doesn't help as it will still pick the same album.

I'm just looking for the same choice that is offered by any other ripping engine e.g. XLD, iTunes. In case these applications find more than one possible album they do offer a pick list to the users (1-4 in my example) for a manual selection. 

This is important as you can't even change musicians and other meta data except Artist, Album, Title and Genre.

I just edit retrospectively  in DTC of via the front panel flash interface. It's quick, it's reliable and I have full control. I can't believe some of the hilarious matches my HDX has managed to come up with, although it's a small minority.

It's a million times easier to sort it out using nServe. Only a few albums go wrong, but when they do go wrong, they go very wrong.

I've experienced a few problems where it chooses "the wrong" CD.

Sometimes identifying it as a totally wrong CD. One example is Tracy Chapman's self titled CD which no matter what I try comes up with the wrong information, Not even anything remotely close. 

Another example was the CD single by Chicane featuring Tom Jones (stoned in love), it wrongly said it was "kiss for a rose" by seal.

Looking at the data for it, chicane was an option but it was discounted in favour of seal!

Not a big deal as I can edit the data on n-serve, however, there is no option for me to edit who wrote the song and it still says seal!

In summing up, it only happens to a few CDs, however, it is very frustrating that when it is obviously wrong, you cannot manually override the choice.

Even a common album such as Animals by Pink Floyd or Meddle by Pink Floyd ,it thought it was part of a compilation and said it was CD7 of that compilation and didn't get it correct name.

In the case of the Pink Floyd CDs, I resorted to ripping them on my Mac to WAV and then copying them to the downloads folder on the HDX.

iTunes which I used to rip them got both albums correct immediately.

It's the database . . . and like others I just resort to manually editing metadata if needed.  Edit once -- it's right forever.

My uServe has not gotten it wrong in a long time, but then again I have not been ripping many cd's lately.

Thanks for all of your replies. 

I just wanted to make sure that I haven't missed any point to get to meaningful meta data. 

blythe has given another perfect example how the HDX is sometimes choosing the wrong album ("Looking at the data for it, chicane was an option but it was discounted in favour of seal!").

I do not want to ripping my CDs with any PC/Mac application as I have bought the HDX to avoid that . 

The objective of the Download folder (for me) is to load HD Music into it, not to load ripped CDs. 

And a last comment to Harry et all: you can't edit all of the meta data...just some like Artist, Album, Title and Genre.

Exactly. Some of the meta data cannot be edited.

I would prefer to have an iTunes style pop up which asks me which of the three albums is it?

I have had several other experiences of albums that it simply refuses to correctly identify and each time when I check the "look-up report"  that it was discounted even though it was correct.

Thankfully, it has only occurred on maybe six or eight out of the 437 albums I have ripped so far.

I have also had a few albums that it simply refuses to rip at all including ZZ Top greatest hits & Eric Clapton - Charly Blues Masterworks Vol 15.

Oddly, the HDX also could not find artwork for the George Michael CD "Older" - a CD which is hardly a rarity....

Lady antebellum - Need you now, When I tried to rip this every time it is identified as an album by a band called Bush & all the song names, writer, composer etc. are totally unrelated to lady antebellum

Again much of the meta data cannot be edited.

I have a question in relation to this, as when I delete the album with N-Serve, when I browse the HDX folders on my MacBook, I can still see "Bush" listed, albeit with the song file extensions WAV.DEL 

However the files still show their original file size, so I am worried that they are taking up unnecessary space.

I ripped the new Beethoven/Mozart CD by the Chiaroscuro Quartet this morning, and for some reason the UnitiServe detected it as a soul album by someone I'd never heard of. It's a real pain when classical albums go wrong - typing in String Quartet in E flat major - andante (for example) about 12 times takes quite a while. A good CD though! 

I'd say first off that if your hard drive isn't full, any space used is not 'necessary.'  Also, this is exactly how Windows' file system has worked for years (decades now?).  Deleted files are not wiped entirely from the storage medium -- they are just 'hidden' from view until their space is needed.  I wouldn't worry about those electrons.

Just in case, have a look here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...376#4945617440756376

What software are you using for metadata editing? Surely you can edit the tracks as a group, or at least use copy and paste?

I'm doing it in nServe. 

I've not used that, so can't offer any advice. Can you use something else?

I use dBpoweramp, including, selectively and carefully on HDX ripped files. There must be plenty out there that will do this and more.

@blythe, we re on the same page here. Maybe someone from NAIM is reading this? Is there any way for passing user requests to NAIM?

@Harry, are you really editing the metadata in the MUSIC folder of the HDX with dBPoweramp? My understanding is that writing attempts are prohibited and that this is only possible in the DOWNLOADS folder (where I did it as well).

Owen I do believe that you're correct -- third party metadata editors are of no use on files that have been ripped by the HDX (or uServe) to the music store (such as the MQ folder).  They are "read only."  We must use the DTC to edit, and that does not provide the ability to edit all of the possible tags / fields.  At least that's my recollection sitting here at work!

Exactly right Bart, hence we are all in trouble when the CD is not picked correctly. You can then still edit some metadata but the majority can't be edited.

Those of us who have a large classic collection do have a bigger issue. So the options are:

• ripping into the DOWNLOAD folder and edit it with whatever metadata editor you have. Downside: you don't take advantage of the unique ripping quality of your HDX.
• ripping it into the MUSIC folder and leaving it with wrong metadata (except the stuff you can edit but this is the minor amount of data). Downside: you might not find your music anymore.

I think that we need a solution. Looking into blythe's post is giving an idea what this could be.

Owen, yes I agree that it's much "worse" with classical, as metadata management can be just plain difficult under the best of circumstances with classical.  Each of us have our preferences as to how to organize -- by composer, director, title, etc.  There are so many more variables with classical it makes my head spin!

This whole thing is weird, as the original Naim whitepaper from 2008, titled the Naim Extended Music Database, states on paragraph 10.3 :

10.3 Multiple AMG returns
In many cases there are a range of possibilities for AMG matches. Logic internal to the Naim Server, subject in itself to ongoing optimisation, makes intelligent selection. In the event of equal weight of selection, a user selection is offered.
By using the available sleeve notes the user can refine the selection. Feedback to AMG refines the central database for future enhanced accuracy of lookup.

So there should be a mecanism for selection by the user in case of equal weight (sic). I can imagine why it is not called every time in order to ensure a easy hands-off operation, but that would be sensible to be able to manually recall it from the DTC when needed.

Maybe time to drop a mail to Phil ?

With regards to the deleted files, if they are not truly deleted until I empty the recycle bin ( as per the link from the post above), how do I empty the recycle bin on the HDX?

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see an iTunes style pop-up, questioning which the correct CD is. Perhaps have it switchable for those who would prefer not to be asked.

Pretty please Mr. graham, Mr. Stephenson, Mr. George et al????

http://www.naimaudio.com/sites...s/HDX%20Reference%20(1.7a)%20English%20Issue%207F.pdf

Half way down and to the bottom of P18. G

Thanks Grahame,

I hadn't found the full manual before, the HDX having been supplied with a "lite" version of the instructions.

Also, as I basically use n-Serve on my iPad to control and do everything, I hadn't found the screen showing the recycle bin :-)

My mistake. Sorry about that. I was thinking at cross purposes.

m0omo0, who is Phil? Is he from Naim, collecting client requests?