On Line Hate

I’ve seen the effects first hand & I too cannot fathom it, but from both ends ....

A young person I know was getting such messages, vile at least & in some cases breaking the law, the detail is irrelevant to making my point

What causes people to want to send such stuff ???

Hiding under the anonymity of the username seems to bring out a weird evil sub-human nature in some people. My experience indicates younger people join in with likeminded online bully groups & exchange similar level stuff sent to them & think it’s either normal of just try to push the boundaries further to “gain” some weird form of kudos. I guess they might never ever say such stuff to people face to face let alone carrying out whatever threat.  The danger IMO is not so much the bully groups but the individuals, the loners & those older than teenage; goodness knows what goes on with those people, not striking 12 in many cases I am sure. 

Then the recipients, why not stop using that chat room, why not change your username.  Oh no can’t do that,  I have “friends” that I “must” chat to. Its almost like a drug, they need a fix every waking moment & that in some respects is more concerning than sending the bad stuff.

It seems to be the new social disease, at worse a new addiction.  

I am not sure these latest revelations that made the headlines have actually done anything to stop it, the reverse I fear.  

It is all very odd. Threatening to rape a woman just because she campaigned to have a picture of Jane Austen on a fiver; or Mary Beard for not being a supermodel is completely bizarre, and, for the women concerned, probably really scary. I can't believe that some people have nothing better to do with their time.

I think Mike's right - the anonymity of the 'net allows people to fantasise, and act out all kinds of roles and to make statements they wouldn't make without the cloak of invisbility. I also agree that "boundary pushing" matters among certain groups in order for individuals to gain status among their peers.

It's interesting that one of the guys who threatened Mary Beard apologised profusely to her when he was "outed" and those who found him threatened to tell his mum. Turned out he was an otherwise mild-mannered middle-class Oxbridge student.

Otherwise I think a lot of these guys (they're not all blokes but I'd be willing to bet that about at least half are) are just sad, sexually frustrated, sacks who live at home with their parents and spend far too much time in their bedrooms wanking while surfing the net. Most of them are probably harmless, lack the cojones to carry out their threats and in need of help - that said, however, I certainly wouldn't want my loved ones to be on  the receiving end of their abuse (would like it myself either, come to think of it).

Hopefully some high-profile prosecutions with nice stiff sentences, coupled with naming and shaming the perpertrators and forcing them to apologise publicly and fulsomely to their victims, will put an end to this type of garbage.

In addition, I think the likes of Twitter and Facebook need to re-examine their roles, before governments start doing if for them. They believe themselves to be facilitators (in the way that Royal Mail and BT are), but I actually think that they're closer to publishers, and thus have the same responsibilities as publishers and broadcasters do.

Mike, that's not the point. The recipients of bullying have just as much right to be in a particular space - a forum, chat room, Twitter, FB, whatever - as the bullies.

Why the hell should they leave or change their usernames? They're not the ones in the wrong, and I'm rather disappointed in such a lily-livered attitude on your part. Do you think that, say, "the only gay in the village" or the new black guy in town ought to leave because the local homophobes and racists don't want them there? I'm sure you don't, which is why your comment is rather puzzling.

Whether or not we are all addicted to social media and online blather is a separate discussion and not particularly pertinent here.

yes Kevin I agree that point completely, however your language my friend is out of order

That aside,  sorry you are missing my point,  OK maybe could be better made

I have “friends” that I “must” chat to. Its almost like a drug, they need a fix every waking moment & that in some respects is more concerning than sending the bad stuff. 

It seems to be the new social disease, at worse a new addiction.

You're right about addiction Mike

I went to the theatre on Thursday night and was absolutely appalled to see people of all ages - not just the young - spending huge amounts of their time staring at their phones, rather than watching the performances on stage.

What is wrong with these people? What do they think they're missing?

It's the devolution of man kind.  I go to friends houses and their teens in many (certainly not all) cases can't be bothered to look up from the mesmerizing hand-held device, respond in grunts, never make eye contact, and are generally socially inept.  Their "portal to life" is the GD phone, and what I find ironic is that in many cases they can't even bother to call a friend - they would rather text for 10 minutes than have a conversation about something that could be talked about in less than one minute.  It is a very worrying trend, and while peripheral to, it is strongly related to that which this post discusses.

Even in my own case, I am annoyed that if I forget my phone home for a day when I go to work, I feel like I am disconnected and operating at a disadvantage.  Of note, on the days when this has happened I have not yet died.  Kind of sad that something that didn't even exist 25 years ago now seems so indispensable.

Perhaps the biggest irony is that "social" media is actually turning much of the population into social misfits.

Many people are essentially stupid. That hasn't changed. They would rather chatter inconsequentially than get a grip on reality. That hasn't changed. Some (dare I say many?) people have some pretty nasty streaks buried within them which for the most part do not get expressed but can be drawn to the surface on occasion. That hasn't changed. 

Very little has changed. What has changed is that people now have an opportunity to show the world how stupid and occasionally nasty they really are. There is no new bell curve or modern trend. It's just people being people. You can't blame the medium for the people who use it any more than you can a car for its driver. Although many people do,, because they're stupid.

Get Richard or the Duck to moderate = problem solved.

Mista h

@Adam -

Are you still a moderator?  I thought you had regular "member" status these days.

@Richard Dane -

Other than yourself, are there others moderating this forum?  I know that Phil and other Naim employees post now and then, but I did not think that any were doing mod duties.

Thanks.

Hook

PS - Not sure I buy into the whole online equals decline of western civilization argument.  There certainly are a lot of very bright, totally engaged young people who are doing amazing things with technology and social media. Everything from politics to entrepreneurship, they are not all bleary-eyed, non-responsive zombies living in their parent's basement.  It's easy to stereotype though -- one bad apple and all that.

PPS - It is up to the forum owner to mandate the degree to which member privacy is preserved. Most fear liability issues, and also, for many of us, employment contracts restrict or prohibit participation in forums under our real names (for fear that something we say could be interpreted as representing our employer's opinion).  I ran the idea of using my own name, along with a Frank Abela-esque disclaimer at the bottom of each post, past my employer, and was strongly encouraged not to do so.  It wasn't a prohibition, but I was told I would have to file regular reports on my online activity, and that the content of my posts would come under regular review.  So, it's just less of a hassle to post anonymously.  But I haven't ever felt that this entitled me to act like a jerk online (or any more like a jerk than I already am in real life).  I've always assumed that if someone really wanted to know my identity, it wouldn't be that hard to find out.  So maybe you trolls out there might want to give that some consideration?  Go too far, and we'll hunt you down like the dirty dogs you are!  (See what I mean about employer concerns over content?  ). 

Just normal folk these days:

Human nature has not and never will change, but I think when that human nature can hide behind an "electronic screen" and that becomes a substitute for real, bonafide, social interaction, it devolves the person into something less...perhaps because they don't have to deal with the consequences for their behavior.  Again, human nature will never change, but the choices made in an ethical societal interaction can be changed, and these people have chosen the low road. 

While it is not the fault of the technology itself (the technology is ethically neutral, and like any technology, can be used for good or bad purposes), it is the at least in part, a result of the technology allowing the seamier underside of human nature to gain the upper hand.  And the fact that people allow the technology to become their life.  It was well stated above that more and more people are finding that their "best friend" is their computer device.  The human nature bell curve is static, and always will be.  The bell curve of the manifestation and frequency of that manifestation of human nature has definitely shifted.

So I wasn't blaming the medium in and of itself, but how it is manifest today.  Perhaps that explanation permits me to shed the moniker of "stupid."

I refuse to join these social internet things - facebook, twitter, linkedin and so on.

If I want to talk to someone, then first choice is face to face, and second is the phone.

Email acts, as did once the posted hand-written letter, for me, as my more formal approach, though not often actually that formal.

I am saddened by the style of life where the internet enabled mobile phone is crucial to take when leaving the house ...

I also take the view that when one bolts the door on the house,then the individual takes the choice of what to let over the thresh-hold. Electronically or physically.

It is curious to me that some people seem so addicted to their connected life, in the sense of electronic connection, that they cannot see this simple thing for what it is. They are opening their door to most unwelcome and unpleasant guests.

I have been involved in this Forum for ten years now, and have controlled how much I give out on a personal level in a way that no longer allows for personal things being "published" at all. There is always someone who will twist what is said openly, and take advantage.

Four pints of beer and one may say something ill-advised, which will be forgotten the next dayif said face to face. On the internet it is there without an obvious way to get rid of it at all. Thus I say nothing intimate ...  "online" ...

I don't know if that makes me stupid, or simply boring, but there it is.

ATB from George

Hook,

Paul and Doug have moderator rights.

Hi George,

I agree with you - and as I mentioned, I am still alive at the end of a day where I forget my phone. 

Granted, when one is stuck in a doctor's waiting room  or DMV office, it can be very helpful to look at the internet, call someone, or check email (or dare I say it, visit the Naim Forum!) 

But at the end of the day, it is still something we lived without for centuries.  And could do without again if we had to.  Unfortunately the cell phone and internet are so ubiquitous now it is hard to imagine life before they were here...especially at work with the email!

Linkedin has been good for my business but I am selective about who I link to. I get frequent requests from people I've never heard of because they know someone I know. I regard this to be an abuse of the system but it illustrates how superficially people can regard it. I've also had link requests from people I've told to their face are useless and from one bloke who I have two County Court judgements against for unpaid debt. If that isn't stupid behaviour I don't know what is.

As far as spraying "stupid" around indiscriminately, I think if we are honest we can all admit to areas of blindness and stupidity. I am very stupid about some things. It's when a medium appears (to me) to be largely dependent on and driven by stupidity/banality that I run in the opposite direction. Like Linkedin, 6-8 years back before the Twittering masses flooded it, it can be extremely useful. But it can be difficult at times to wade through the static and (here it comes again) stupidity.

I agree about LInkedIn harry - I basically use it as an online job marketing tool, keeping my resume, certifications, and professional experience out there.  ANd like you I have received requests to link from people I never knew, and I summarily dismiss those.  I don't use it for any real social networking, just professional things...I refuse to turn it into "Facebook for Grownups."

+1

steve

I won't have one of those new fangled telephone things if I want to contact to someone I will write them a letter or send them a telegram. 

Ancestor of George 1880s.

Obviously a letter is preferable but I'll have nothing to do with these new ballpoint thingies. A hand cut goose quill, primary flight feathers from the left wing of course as I'm right handed.

They're available at a snip from Jeeves & Peeves for a mere three hundred squid when they do one of their BOGOF offers with their panda hair shaving brushes.

Sorry George. 

Dear Tom, and Howard,

I quite like a bit of teasing when it is affectionate!

But my post above has led me to think hard about why I post here. A sort of reflection on what possible reason I could have for posting anything on the net apart from sharing enthusiasms.

Is it the kick of people reading it and appreciating the content? As in enjoying the applause as some performing musicians do! If that is it then my posts are unjustified! When I used to play concerts I hated protracted applause at the end as it got in the way of pub-time!

As for being old fashioned, this is definitely true, and getting more so - i 'll not say worse - with age.

Best wishes to you both. George 

This notion pretty much rules my existence in the world at large.  My wife and I say it a little differently -- "People are idiots."

George you're one of the treasures of this board so please carry on. I read everything you post even though I don't understand much of it as I know SFA about music from a technical point of view. However I like to think I can recognise a good tune, and the talent behind it, whether it's the Beatles or Mozart.

Dear Tom,

For every thing there is a season, and my season is at the cusp. All is fulfilled.

I have had a good run - ten years is a good run - so I am enjoying this last session. Yesterday I asked Richard to withdraw my membership, while things are still good.

I have been pulling back from al-sorts of things. Twelve months ago I shut down my eBay account for no other reason than I knew there was nothing I could possibly wish to buy now I have the Carlton completely rebuilt, and a complete set of vintage spare running gear besides. I had a 100% positive rating, and some really kind feedback, but no reason to use it.

Time to simplify and enjoy a more old fashioned and directly face to face sort of interaction.

Best wishes for the future to you and all my friends here! G

All I can say to that is

George you're a daft bugger sometimes. Please stay and continue to educate some of us (me at least).

Otherwise when can we expect to hear from Narbonensis?

Tom.