Synology question

Oh gee don't get me started with this   I've been unable to backup reliably to my Synology nas for quite a while now. 

MY problem, which I don't know if is yours too, is that the backup destinations all get named \\diskstation\<shared folder name> whilst the shares get named \\192.168.1.12\<shared folder name>

Allen B alluded to this issue earlier.  Whilst I'm not positive, this MAY be why all of my backup destinations are, to n-Stream and the DTC, always "offline."  I will have to email Phil about this; I am stumped.

N, as to your shares, if they appear "offline" then highlight and click the "activate" button.  That puts them "online."  I use the OS X version of the DTC for this; the Windows one will do it too.  I am not so sure you can do this merely from the web interface.

I've somehow managed to get it online now. But it cannot be converted to the backup music store, as it doesn't show on that screen. It doesn't show in nStream either. I tried to convert it to a standard music store, just to see if it would work, and it says that there is an error as the share is not writeable. Maybe I need to turn sharing on, on the synology, but I don't know how to do that. I'd expect it to be Ok, as the NAS is showing as a network share. Oh, well, I guess I'll have to call Phil.

Which sinology are you using and what is the respective DSM ? I have my synology set up to perform daily backups to an external Seagate backup drive connected via USB.

Making a backup or streaming from a NAS shouldn't have to be this complicated, especially if you have spent thousands on the uServe. I understand that the uServe is fussy about network settings but given the number of times issues like this crop up with owners of this device isn't about time Naim looked at the firmware and choice of embedded OS?

Tog

Thank you that detailed response. 

Both the UServe and the NAS have fixed addresses.

The share is set for full access to Guest, and is called Musicbackup.

In the web interface, it shows as enabled and online, but when I try to set it as the backup music store, it's not visible. Not can I choose it in the DTC.

The only place I can see where you can call a workgroup NAIM in the NAS is in control panel under WIN/MAC/NFS. Under WIN I have therefore changed WORKGROUP to NAIM, but it doesn't seem to do anything. I cannot see where to change the workgroup in my Draytek router.

It's all most baffling! It really should be easier than this. 

I've once again tried to make the NAS a music store (just as an experiment) and it says thatthe music store 192..../music backup is not writeable.

This must be at the root of the problem - somehow I need to make it writeable.

Interestingly, I can copy files to the NAS from the Serve via Windows, and then play the tracks through the laptop, but still the UServe cannot see them. So the NAS is 'working', it's just not 'writeable' in the way needed to be a music store, either regular or backup. 

Thanks Allen

The Fixed address was already showing in the NAS, so I've set that to manual.

In the Naim IP address tool, as well as the IP, it wants net mask, gateway and DNS server. Do I really need these? I have a horrible feeling that if I enter things and get it wrong, the Serve will no longer get to the web to retrieve album art etc. Can I just enter the IP and leave the others as all zeros? I suspect not. But if not, where do I find them? 

OK. The DNS number shows in the router as different from the gateway (the 192.168.1.1) whereas if you look within system in the Userve web interface, the DNS and the Gateway are the same ie both 192 etc. Whereas the DNS in the router shows as 87.237 etc etc. Very odd.

There is still an issue somewhere, as the NAS shows as offline until I go into the DTC and highlight it. But it's still not writeable!

Having read through this, the most common issues with NAS write issues is not DNSs or IP addresses or network related  etc but file system access permissions.

On your NAS who has write permission? There will be a username and password, even if Guest. What account is the US using to connect to the NAS?

sMB which like most file systems needs a proper authentication system setup. You may find a guest access has read only, but only specific usernames have write. This will be setup on your NAS. Many OS inherit the account username and login password by default  when mounting network drives.

So.. Not having a US I can't guide specifically, bu is there a login with password on the US? Try ensuring this account is set up on the NAS with read write permission.

Simon

I've now managed to set the IP, mask and DNS to be the same in both US (via the set IP tool) and the NAS.

I set up a shared folder in the NAS with read/write access for admin and guest. There is a single passwork for admin login to the NAS, but there should be no others.

I don't know how the US is trying to get to the NAS. I can now promote the NAS to a music store, but not a backup. The web interface says the NAS is offline, even when it's not.

And now, when I go to the web interface, the NAS has become disabled. Once enabled, the NAs is still not visible in the way needed (whatever that might be) to be promoted to a music backup. 

Hungryhalibut, I really think you need the answer from Naim, or the manual if written in there, on the account (username and password) the US uses to mount the network stores..

If you are lucky your synology might have logging you can enable to show you, or you could sniff the network if you have the knowledge to see what the US is using to connect..

But confirming the account sounds the most reliable way of resolving the issue long term.

Have you created two different mount points on the NAS, one for backup and one for music store?

Simon

I've turned everything off, turned it on again and checked. The shared NAS folder is online, but cannot be promoted to a backup music store because the Web interface says it's offline. 

It's really frustrating. I'll give up (before Hilary kills me) and call Naim tomorrow.

It really should be easier than this to set up a backup - I'm hardly trying to do something out of the ordinary.

Thanks to everyone for their help - it's much appreciated.

And now, (I've just had a look) the share is now disabled. It can be manually enabled, but still cannot be used as a backup. And the Superuniti cannot see it anyway.....

It seems to me that some things need to be done in the DTC, and others in the Web interface. It would be so much better if everything was in one place!

Thank you so much Allen for getting so many thoughts into one place.  And thank YOU HH for leading us through this.  I will forward a link to this thread to Phil, and yes, I really hope we can get some clarity around this stuff so that the backup process is more robust.

Hmm some interesting points on this thread.

I have both QNAP (TS419P+) and Synology NAS (DSslim411). I use my QNAP for HDX backup and storing my ITunes music share. I have had no issues with setting up and carrying out backup. Differential backup is carried out on a weekly basis every Sunday at 02.00) The QNAP shared folders appear within the HDX (and Desktop) as shares (the Backup folder does not appear in this list) but does appear in the system status screen on the desktop when I look at detailed status which are marked as online and the backup share is online. (It is shown as \\hostname\hdxbackup not \ipaddress\hdxbackup)

I then use the Synology NAS as a backup to backup the QNAP using RSYNC. It all works fine and I have not had to set any workgroup setting on the HDX. Most home networks particularly if Windows will default to Workgroup. If Naim defaults it's workgroup to NAIM this is wrong and bad practice.  You should not have to change your internal network homegroup to fit in with Naim. I have not and everything seems to work fine.

I have just carried out some experimentation by enabling scanning on my Synology disktstation and it appears fine with all the shared folders showing as online. I think you need to set Windows File system sharing on the WIN/MAC/NFS page in Control panel and ensure the workgroup/userid/password are correct.

Fixing IP addresses to devices is best carried out by using the facility within most routers to always assign the same IP address to a MAC. I use it and all my devices are always assigned the same IP address by my Fritzbox 7390 VDSL router - when you run a home network with so  many devices that over half your 255 ip address space allocated you need to do this and also use DHCP.

The funny thing is that I can stream music to the SuperUniti from the NAS (I moved the files via the laptop) and yet I cannot set it up as a backup. Weird.

If you are streaming music from it then the Unitserve will recognise it as containing music and will not allow you to "use as backup"  i.e. this button will be greyed out in the desktop client. I get exactly the same with my Synology - the folder that contains music cannot be used as a backup. All the other shared folders on the Synology can be set as a backup i.e. the "use as backup" button on the naim desktop is not greyed out. Exactly the same works with my QNAP NAS in that the music share folder cannot be used as a backup but all the other shared folders can.

When setting up userids and priveleges on NAS  - I would keep it simple just use one global userid for all your NAS etc so that you can set the priveleges (Read/Write) easily.

+1, the manual says:

Note: Only empty Network Shares can be nominated as backup locations

I thought I'd emptied it. We've just drunk a very nice bottle of Rioja that Hilary won in the RNLI raffle in Emsworth yesterday. Somehow the NAS issues are now in perspective!

Is Emsworth a village in near Chichester, an old Roman town? Then we  must have been neighbors in the 80's 

I will try checking that the share is empty after work today. It's all very confusing, with some things done in the DTC and others in the Web interface. Why it can't be done in one place baffles me. I will speak to Phil today if possible.

Peter -- Emsworth is indeed near Chichester, which is a lovely little city and is where I work. In the 80s, however, I was living in Leicester and London. I soon realised that London is horrible, and moved to 'the seaside'.

I recommend starting with a newly created shared folder -- I am not positive that deleting files from a folder leaves it empty ENOUGH to be used as a backup.  Create a new shared folder, use all lower-case letters and no spaces in the name (these last 2 things were suggested to me by a friend who thought that the Synology might not fully like 32 and 64 bit style names -- stick with all lower case characters and no spaces).

Also I don't think I know of anything that must be done by the web interface -- the dtc can do it all.  Let me know if I'm wrong about that!  I don't use the web interface for any backup tasks -- at most I use it to do a quick refresh of the shares after moving music around.

I've spoken to Steve Hopkins today, who advised me to remove the synology media server, which I did. I then deleted all the old shared folders and set up a new one called newmusicbackup.

But the DTC would not allow me to use it, as it contained 'files or folders'. It turns out that the NAS adds three folders called HQ, MQ, and LQ to each shared folder you set up. What they are and why they are there I don't know.

So I deleted them, and immediately the DTC no longer showed the 'use as backup' option as greyed out.

So I selected it and what do you know, IT WORKS (touch wood!!). It's now trundling away and 21 hour later all my so-far-ripped 500GB of data will be backed up.

What a relief!

Thanks again to all who have helped. The Forum is a wonderful thing at times like this, and a really good resource.