equipment switched on

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/52-warm-up-time

In spite of the advice from Naim themselves, and many here, I'd turn it off and live with the slightly reduced quality of tone in replay.

On some models the warm up time from switch is very short, and they are sweet from the start.

Some of the older models, less so.

It is a phenomenal waste to leave things turned on when not in use, and waste is waste, and waste in a world of finite resources, is nothing short of irresponsible.

It cannot possibly be that Naim fit "On/Off" switches if they were never intended to be used. They are such high quality switches that it is hard to imagine that are not meant to be used daily ...

ATB from George

I understand the notion from the last person commenting, however there is such a considerable difference in tone quality that I quickly started the appreciate that it's a requirement......

first of all I apologize for my English, but aside from the consumption of electricity, the equipment will not break?

Well, lets not start a war here....

But Agricola could not be more sensible and dare I say it "on the button" with his statement.

I notice a difference switching my boxes on and off, but its soon forgotten under the fine sounding music and those fluffy clouds

Jason.

Naim are obsessed with the attention to detail necessary to produce the best possible sound quality from component selection right through to domestic considerations. So of course they recommend leaving it on, because it sounds best. Some components warm up quickly, some hardly need it at all and others can take days to weeks. If you want the best you can get at all times you leave them on. If this matters less for the sake of a quick warm up and down time power saving, switch them off. It's your stuff and your electricity. Do as you see fit.

Electrical equipment is in general more likely to be damaged if you keep turning it on and off. Just leave it all switched on and don't worry. You will do a lot more to reduce you fuel consumption by turning down the thermostat and wearing a jumper. And your Naim boxes will help to keep you warm.

It is certainly true that leaving electrical components running continually does not subject them to the thermal cycle involved in powering up and down, but I have never heard of a break down of any Naim piece from turning on and off earlier than the normal major service at the usual service interval of about ten years.

Capacitors are prone to a gradual decline that might be accelerated by turning off, but not so much that turning off produces a shortening of service life to worry about.

As for HH's suggestion about avoiding waste in other areas to account for wasting finite fuel to generate electricity that is wasted running quiescent replay equipment, this will not do.

Waste is waste, and waste in a world of finite resources is nothing short of irresponsible ... whether it be running the central heating high enough that one can sit in a shirt in midwinter, quite as much as leaving unused electrical/electronic items when they are not doing what they were meant to.

All savings of waste are not merely virtuous, but a responsibility.

ATB from George

I leave my Naim equipment switched on but only because of that infuriating loud click in the speakers when you switch the PA off!

The annoying pop will not ruin your speakers.

It is not a sufficient excuse for irresponsible waste.

ATB from George

Now you are making me feel guilty (but you are probably right).

Dave

If I made you think, question, consider, then the job is done.

Nobody should feel guilty about being born and taking their fair share of resources, but waste is waste ... and it is unfair on the future generations ...

ATB from George

Dear Mike 1380,

I'll leave the Forum and turn my lappy off for good if you promise to do the same, and I don't mean just leave the Forum!

I mean start living the hair shirt life with no computer, no modem and so on.

I turn these off when not in use.

I shall no doubt comment on the topic next time it arises.

ATB from George

But how does one define waste?  Keeping the devices powered so as to allow them to be at optimum performance when used for audio replay is surely not waste? You could argue it is inefficient or even an indulgence, but I don't think it is necessarily  waste. If leaving the devices powered on had no performance difference compared to switching off, then leaving them powered on would be wasteful as one is then consuming energy for no benefit or purpose.

Simon

George, please, do you mind? Some of us are liberals.

Best, Chris

Don't worry EVAR, you were not to know.....

I personally would define waste as spending thousands of pounds on naim kit then not getting the best out of it as recommended by naim. Mine is always on and is used every day. It seems more of a waste turning on the tv when you see the rubbish that is broadcast. 

Then don't run a TV. I gave it up in 2002 ...

ATB from George

Mine gets left on as it used for the Tv when not listening to music and as there are 5 boxes plus an Nn-Sub to switch on, doing it everyday would be a real pain in the rear. The CDP, and TT PSU & Phono are normally off until needed tho. 

As George says, waste is waste. When something is not being used then it is wasteful to leave it switched on. Of course some devices, like a refridgerator, need to be left powered up in order to function correctly. I find the argument that the same is true of Naim equipment to be not very robust. True, some Naim equipment does respond favourably to being left powered up continually, but does this mean that it is unsatisfactory if switched on and off? I think not. One must seriously consider the possibility of getting the very last ounce of performance against the terrible waste of electricity that is required to achieve it. In my view the responsible conclusion has to be that it cannot be sensibly justified outside of the extremely narrow and blinkered attitude of  'I want the very best sound regardless'. Taking the wider view places things rather more into perspective.

I am sceptical of the oft forwarded argument that turning on/off shortens product life due to stressing electrical components. Components may well be stressed. But it is also a fact that all components have a finite life span, and leaving equipment powered up continually means that most of that lifespan is being used up whilst just idling rather than playing music. So here are two opposing factors. I have never read of any evidence that a product's life span has been shortend by not leaving it switched on. It is a theoretical supposition rather than an established fact. That electrical components do have a finite life span is however fact, Every hour that your equipment stays powered up is an hour off its life span. 

I grew up in an age when it was perfectly normal to simply switch off something when it was not in use. This did require the effort of rising to operate the switch on the equipment or at the wall however, and I guess that nowadays this is just expecting a little too much!

Peter 

Sorry, George, but that's dodgy advice - completely spurious.

You can't be allowed to get away with that, old chap.

Running Naim equipment from cold commonly has a very detrimental impact on sound quality - we are certainly not talking about "slightly reduced quality of tone in replay".

Further, it is not just the older models that take time to warm up. My kit is all current model - and relatively new. Every piece of it takes days to warm up after switching on from cold. The exception is my CD555 and NAP500 - which take at least a couple of weeks to come back fully on song.

Sadly, through the first few days of warm-up, my system sounds really bad/sick - so much so, that I tend to leave it on stand-by rather than listen to any music.

It's a real pain having to wait through the warm-up period - but wait one must, when one turns one's system off.

Why pay Naim prices and settle for a compromised listening experience, because of cold kit? That would have to be stupidity.

Engelbert

I don't buy this massive difference in cold v warmed up kit. There's a difference, yes but i don't think it's as marked as some claim especially on kit that's been well run in and not in need of a service. 

People are welcome to listen with their own ears. 

I have done so - with each of the 100-plus pieces of Naim kit that I've owned over the last 17 years.

My finding is always the same. Cold kit sounds exactly that - cold, hard and grumpy.  The musical magic is simply not there.

I suppose, however, that if one is deaf (such as certain contributors to this thread??) then it hardly matters......

Engelbert

(Music lover)