BubbleUPnP

Hi and welcome to the forum, especially as you are yet another Android user who is disgusted that Naim hasn't released an Android version of Nstream. They promised this was on the way last December!

Re, Bubbleupnp - this is the best option until Naim get their act together and artwork shows up fine in my album lists (I use Asset as my server). I save my artwork as a separate file in each album directory under the name folder.jpg . Worth a try.

cheers

Pev

Hi Steve,

Depending on your budget....I would recommend the slime line partners in crime to start, 152/155. That would give you an excellent mid range system that oozes attack and rhythm.

If your budget is less and/or you prefer less boxes, the Nait XS2 is getting very good reviews on the Forum. 

Look forward to hearing how you partner the ND5.

Jason.

As Pev implies, its probably to do with your UPNP server and the way your ripped the files (or the way the people you download them from create them.) I have both a cover.jpg and folder.jpg in each album folder. Not sure which one Bubble looks for to display album artwork. Easy to test.

What UPNP server & ripping software are you using?

I also recommend Bliss, which is an app that cleans up your album art and metadata.  Lots of discussion about it here.  Its not perfect, but is a nice way to do clean up. I suspect it can do what you need automagically - as it will go through and download then create the cover.jpg and folder.jpg files in each album directory. A free alternative is MusicBrainz Piccard, but is more manual.

Best way is to rip it and perfectly edit the album art + metadata disc by disc, but who has the time. 

Yep, as Osprey says, "folder.jpg"  (no quotes) for every cover and it should work. You may wish to try some upnp servers as they all offer free trials and most can be used for free albeit with some limitations. Asset is generally thought to be the most Naim compatible.

It was the music server I was playing with. Tried it on the proper NAS with Twonkey and all works fine. In fact the album art a) Doesn't have to be called 'cover.jpg' or 'folder.jpg'. It can be the albumname.jpg b) The artwork doesn't even have to be a separate jpg. It can be the artwork embedded in the music files.

Anyway that's with Twonkey. It does look like it's down to how good (or bad) the music server is.

Thanks for the pointers.

Now the only issue I have is sometimes Bubble forgets to display the artwork whilst playing :-( It can be there and then it goes again :-( Change album and it's back but after a couple of tracks it goes. I even told it to refresh the album artwork with each track. Works for a couple of tracks but then goes. Still playing with this one ;-)

@solwisesteve...

Steve, out of curiosity, have you tried selecting a track via bubbleupnp,  then select the same track from the front panel of the streamer.

I noticed a very slight degradation in sound quality when using bubble (and some other apps too) when compared to directly selecting it on my ND5XS.

This prompted me to buy an ipad mini and use nstream, which I can confirm that I notice no drop in sound quality...

tbh no though I have to admit that the bubbleupnp is only for when I'm NOT sat in front of the hifi doing a proper listening session i.e. just for background noise. For a proper listen I'd invariably be no more than a few yards from the controls on the front of the ND5 so I'd appreciate the exercise every 45-60 mins to go and select the next album :-)

Interesting what you say though. It did pass through my mind whether there was going to be a difference but since the IP stream is still going directly from the nas to the nd5 I couldn't see why it would be any different.  All the bubble is doing is telling the nas to send the stream to the nd5 which, from the nas units point of view, is not really any different than the nd5 telling the nas unit to send it a stream. All the bubble does is send the instruction off.

Out of interest does the nstraem do it the same way? i.e. it tells the nas to send to the nd5 or does it instead tell the nd5 what you want and then the nd5 does the requesting? I'd be interested to know the answer to that.

I have to confess though even if the nstream was better there is NO WAY I will buy an Apple product - I'd just make sure I used the front controls when I want a serious listen ;-)

I did this excersise with several UPNP Access Control point apps, on both Android and PC, and found the same loss in sound quality with all of them.

The only apps I found that sounded 100% the equal of the direct select on the ND5XS were nStream and Linn Kinsky.

I experienced the same issue with a Denon streamer I had also. (could not use nstream with the Denon tho').

My theory is that because nStream and Kinsky are dedicated to a known high quality renderer, then they will use the maximum bit rate available to the needs of the streamer.

Maybe the third party apps that work with everything force the stream to a lower bit rate to ensure compatability. I don't know.

The sound quality difference was enough to make me get the ipad. I would have stuck with Kinsky, but it could not recognise when the Naim had stopped playing the track, in order to stream the next one.

I am glad you have a system that works for you, but it would be interesting to see if you can notice a difference when streaming from bubble.  confirm if I am going mad !! 

I notice that the soundstage flattened with Bubble. Direct selection made the soundstage bigger, more air around the instruments, almost like some reverb had been added.  It is very subtle.

The actual tonality and bass quality etc were identical, it is more of an ambience feel.

I also notice a difference when the ground setting switch is set from floating to chassis, on the ND5XS.(chassis is best for me) and also between FLACs and WAVs !!!!

regards

fretfan

This is a very interesting Fret!

We need further comments from the Forum regarding the sq of using bubble v's nStream...can't see how it would make any difference but it would be good to hear from other bubble users.

Also, I am interested in your ground switch setting and will try it out myself.....

Jason.

The way UPNP works is to establish a connection between the server and the renderer.  The control app cannot make a difference in sound quality. The bits don't flow through the app, and the UPNP messages the control app sends are same for ever app.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...lug_and_Play#Control 

What I'd check with Bubble is which "Library" (actually a UPNP server) its selected and the settings on that server. For example, Bubble can stream from files from your android device, which it labels "Local Media Server"

Bubble will pick up any UPNP server on your network. I have 2 sets of directories - one for full res FLAC and an MP3 mirror directory. I use Vortex Box, which actually has 3 UPNP servers running for various media.  One of those servers is pointed to the MP3 library. Make sure the server you're selecting in Bubble as the "Library" to is set to use full res version, is not down sampling, etc..

Its completely possible that Nstream is pointing to a different server, drawing from a different data source, set not to compress, etc.

I'm not sure that this is possible - but Nstream could also over ride the settings on that UPNP server.

Hi Mutterbak

Thanks for your reply.  I only have one upnp server with only one database, full of wav and flac files only.

Here are my findings..

Using a WD Mybook Live NAS drive running Twonky,,,

1. Access tracks on ND5XS from front panel - perfect sound

2. Using nstream app on ipad - perfect sound

3. Using Linn Kinsky on Android - perfect sound

4. Using Linn Kinsky on PC - perfect sound

5. Using BubbleUPNP on Android  -   flattening of image

6. Using Foobar on PC  - flattening image

7. Using Mediahouse on Android  - flattening image

8. Asset UPNP on PC - flattening image

I know that audio data does not pass through the control app, but the common denominator here is that 3rd party apps have a poorer sound quality than the dedicated apps.

Note, by poor, I don't mean bad. In fact they still sound excellent. but the dedicated apps seem to allow a bit more to come through.

I would be interested in other people's findings...

cheers

Frefan

Weird.

Could be volume control or some other function of UPNP.

There's a component for:

• UPnP RenderingControl DCP - control MediaRenderer settings; volume, brightness, RGB, sharpness, and more

Seems like that's mostly for video, but volume could certainly have an impact.  Bubble also has an equalizer function I just found. Those could have an impact if they change either the Media Server or Renderer settings (though doubtful Naim opens those up on its end)

Anyone on here really know what they're talking about ;-)

Source Protocol Info (server device) and Sink Protocol Info (player / renderer device) are what you're after. Most control points will select the MIME type that first matches entries supported by both devices; some control points will select a preferential MIME type (say, audio/wav or audio/x-flac) even though it may not be the first matching entry....