USB Audio

My current DAC is a rega which is of good quality but i have never tried

inputting via the USB connection. To be honest I dont really know where

to start. I read that many users prefer the mac mini but without knowing

much about it, it seems a long winded way of playing music.

As it is not just me playing music, any system really needs to have a user

friendly interface.I am happy to experiment and invest in new equipment

if required. These days value for money is of great importance.

if someone can advise on setting up a mac/laptop for playing high res music

into a DAC it would be much appreciated.

This is exactly a case where an audition of a Naim DAC V1 would be instructive.

Not cheap but much less than the Naim nDAC, and has a proper asynchronous USB capacity - no expensive USB lead required, but only a decently made standard issue one.

The V1 is very special model that makes music first and foremost.

ATB from George

Ok, im ready to experiment!

First port of call is to connect windows laptop to DAC via a USB cable. I am interested

to hear this but cannot really see this being my source of choice. It all seems a fuss and

if it means getting laptop setup everytime I wanna listen to music then this is not the answer.

All the family use the hifi and we all enjoy the streaming of Rdio and have tried Spotify previously

with similar results. Unless I have seriously misunderstood something this all seems a 

backwards step. I am tempted to back to old school an buy a cd player.

if anyone else fancies offering advice on computer audio id love to hear it. :-))

Ok, lets say i invest in mac mini!

you say it sits in hifi rack and you just select tracks etc, you have ripped music on

your mini and connected via usb. How do you control the music?

PC, especially with Windows 8.1 and MQn player is incredible when feeding to V1. People should not be discouraged because they simple need to install driver which comes from Naim free of charge. MQn is still free of charge too, and it will make your V1 to sign as good as pretty expensive players running on Mac computers, if not even better. You don't believe it you'd better try it!

I started with Foobar, than I moved to JRiver, and I finally found the gold, called MQn, which transformed my V1/100/P3's to an exceptional performer. When I got my V1/100, I hooked it up friend of mines Spendor A6, and we played music for half a day trying different setups, but we just couldn't get right. It sounded too "digital". It wasn't actually bad, but not what I expected. I almost put those two units to the boxes for sale, thinking to go back to CD player+ kind of setup. But I made a good move to download JRIver, and to take my two little boxes to Harbeth dealer in Toronto to give it another try. That test saved my V1/100, and I'm so happy that it did. In mean time I ripped my whole CD collection (700+), and I played it on JRIver for a while. I was pretty happy with JR, but when I found MQn, I quickly learned what those little boxes can do. It is day and night. My point here is, don't be hesitant to try different players, it does make  huge difference. Whoever says it doesn't, either he/she lies or never tried different things.. been there, done it. There is a tread on MQn on one of the forums (I do not want to post links here, but if you search you will find it) where people help with their input to developer of MQn, but they discuss about tweaks and Windows optimization to get it as good as possible SQ. It was an amazing journey for me. I am coming from CDS/82/250 system, V1/100 beats it in any department for a pretty good margin. You don't believe it you'd better try it!

Sorry I almost forgot, ripping is another tricky thing. It does make difference what you rip it with. DBpoweramp is the way to go.

I think that @Wat, @cvrle, and @Agricola, all excellent considerations for transitioning to computer based playback.

In essence, if you stay in the Windows world (whether using USB or optical) you should benefit from using WAV (as it is suppposed to sound better - plenty of threads on this forum about that), but you will need to manage metadata (i.e. song titles, artist names, etc) using specific software. 

If you use Apple world, then you are better off using the AIFF file format and have not need to manage metadata. 

The other alternative is to use Naim's own solutions (which make use of WAV and Naim's own software to manage metadata and control playback from iPods, iPads, and iPhones, Windows laptops/desktop or mac laptops/desktops)

Regarding software to rip and manage files of different formats and resolution, these do exist in both Windows and Apple worlds, and as @cvrle suggests, experimenting is the way to go - most software suppliers offer free trial periods. 

The apple ones that I know of are for playback are: Amarra, Audivirna, Bitperfect, and JRiver for Mac.  For ripping on the mac, there are a number of options and the one I settled on was XLD (which is free and used by a number on this forum).

Also, as @Agricola suggests, the V1 should on your short list of auditions if you are considering replacing your Rega DAC, as should the Naim DAC, as you have an amplifier already (I am assuming it is either an integrated or a pre-power combo).

@Wat and I have chosen the Mac Mini and there are lots of benefits with that.  Budget permitting, you should also audition and trial the Unitiserve with either the Naim DAC or V1.  Also, many on this forum use the Unitiqute...

Happy experimenting....

Jude

Thanks Jude...I appreciate your comments!

Some people on this forum may think that I am a kind of MQn promoter, or so. I want to use this post to say, no I am not at all. I just want to make aware to the people to something exceptional that they may not know about. I benefited so many times in past reading from this forum so I feel obligated to contribute back to it somehow. The developers name is Gordon Keith and he is located somewhere in UK (I am in Canada), I have no idea where exactly, sorry. I have no ties to Gordon  except that I enjoy his player so much, and I do contribute as much as I can in players testing process (still being developed and tuned). The player is still free of charge, but what he is going to do with, I am not sure yet. There is nothing out there in Windows world that it compares to it by SQ. It is not about marginal improvement, it is about major one. We may have some comparison with Mac world soon. One of the forum members who uses Mac mini will set up a windows computer to give a try to MQn, so we may have some opinion soon.

For JPlay users, I personally don't have too much experience, sorry, but friend of mine who owes a monster system with Wadia and some other very expensive stuff used to run JPlay in dual-PC setup. He dumped it in favor of MQn. I actually found out from him for MQn existence. JPlay dual-PC setup was considered the best in Windows world, as far as I know, not any more according to him.

I wrote already somewhere, if metadata and nice GUI is more important to you stay away of MQn and WAV. If SQ is the most important to you (I would assume that pretty much every Naimer would fall into this group, otherwise why wouldn't we just get a Yamaha or Denon or something chip), you would compromise GUI and FLAC for it, I would. Don’t get me wrong, I still use JRiver and nice GUI to browse through my collection, and once I figure out what I want to listen, I just copy it (CTRL-C), and I press another HotKey combo (CTRL-ALT-X) to start MQn. The fun starts after 5-10 sec’s…IMO, the music played from digital media was never closer to analog playback. If you don’t believe it, you’d better try it, so we can talk!

I can honestly say I have been truly amazed how good this all sounds. What started

out as an experiment has turned out to be a true eye opener. I am using an acer windows

8.1 laptop circa 2006 running dbpoweramp for ripping and foobar for playing using the naim

supplied preferences on DAC V1 download page. My DAC is a rega and integrated is a

rega brio -r. Im aware that other windows compatible players are available but i am giving

foobar a chance. I will continue to tinker with the set-up and aim to audition other, possibly

more accomplished DAC's. One major stumbling block using windows is that I cannot control

other than via laptop. The mac solution allows control in itunes via apple's remote amp

and apple devices just seem more compatible in a music server set-up. My initial thoughts

are to establish a first class PC set-up using a mac mini to rip, store and play HQ files and

controlled using an IOS device. Making use user friendly is key for me as if its a chore it 

will not get used much. I would be happy with a windows solution but the control issues 

render this a no go. 

I've been using the Rega Dac's usb input since a few months, and surprisingly, prefer it to the optical input (albeit from a $10 sound card).

You can control Foobar with a free app (Foobarcon I believe) that runs on an Android tablet. There are surely many other options JRiver has a free control app. No reason why you should go Apple just for control especially if you already have Windows kit and Android tablets are  about one third the cost of an Ipad

Is it worth investing in a high quality (&high price) USB cable to connect PC to DAC? If so can anyone recommend a good buy?? 

No. I used a bog standard USB cable with my DAC-V1 and the BitPerfect tests were completed error free. I just used the first one that came to hand.

Hi,

IME, USB cables do sound different and have to be run in (75 to 100 hours) to reveal their 'true sound'.  There are some threads about this on this site as well as a comparison of USB cables  in the July 2013 Hifi News. 

In respect of price, its really upto you.  I made my decision from testing 5 USB cables ranging from  £30 to £120.  Again, this involves time and effort and everyone has their threshold for this.  Some dealers and specific 'cable only' vendors will allow some sort of loan scheme.

I believe that that the bit perfect test is an indication that the asynchronous USB is functioning OK or not.  It does not indicate sound quality.

I hope this helps

Jude

I'm afraid, I am of the old school of thought. USB is a digital transfer medium. As long as the data gets there, it should be decoded by the dac.

Same with HDMI cables.  I go for build quality of the cable, rather than "sound/video" quality.

I only spend a couple of pounds on my digital cables,  and my Tv has a superb hi def picture,  My printer prints what it's supposed to, and my usb streaming plays perfectly.

Ultimately, I would go with whatever makes you happy. If you want to spend a wad of cash, and it gives you piece of mind, then go for it.

I would buy Cheap (but sensibly) and if that was not good enough, then buy more expensive. In my experience with digital, cheap has always been good enough....

No it doesn't help. Perhaps you can explain how the sound quality is compromised then.

Dave

Please take look this thread @ Dave4Jazz - https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...al-or-fantasy?page=1

Jude

Perhaps you, and others, should read Naim's document "BitPerfect Configuration for use with the Naim DAC-V1".

If the test is successful the final display shows "Finished - Your Audio is BitPerfect".

If that statement means something other than what I think it means perhaps you, or someone else, can explain?

And so have I. If I use a USB cable that passes the BitPerfect test then that's good enough for me. I also know I don't need to spend fancy money to achieve that. But no doubt others will still disagree.

I think the objective is to get a cable that will transfer the data correctly at the first attempt, when subjected to external influences.

Streaming depends on 100% accuracy at the first attempt, as it processes the data (into it's buffer) in real time.

If you were copying a file rather than streaming, then parts of the file could take several attempts as checksums come into play.  The user is oblivious to this, and only sees the bit perfect copy of the file at the end of the copy process.

Streaming does not have this luxury, so missing bits etc will have to be compensated for at the expense of sound quality.

So there is an argument for better quality cables, that get it right first time.   The question is, is the £100 cable that much better than a £10 one.