Will UnitiServe add any real value?

I started off with my Unitiserve straight into a DAC. I then upgraded to an NDX and used its DAC. For me this represented the biggest single backwards step I have ever taken in hifi. When I took the internal DAC out of the equation I cannot detect any difference between using the NDX or Unitiserve direct into the DAC. I know that many people here prefer the sound with the NDX but I honestly cannot tell the difference. If I did not use this Unitiserve as a source for a second system I would have sold the NDX and gone back to my BNC connection into the DAC. 

Thanks, interesting feedback

I have Qute's in the other two Naim systems, so these stream from the UServe (wherever it is), so I could leave the US hard wired in the main system...if the NDX didn't offer any SQ improvement....and with the boost now from the TP-psu, this may be enough.

The NDS may be above my VFM threshold.....although the 555PS DR made it...

One thing with the alt US ps we have been talking about - give it plenty of ventilation within your system as it runs very hot. I did query this with Teddy P when I got mine last year and it is quite normal - just don't keep you hand on it - it is that hot.

Thanks for the post, good timing, since installing mine yesterday I have been checking the temp (hand on top)...

My US and UQ always run warm, so I am sensitive to this....the TP-psu does run warm/hot......can keep the hand on it, but it is warm....it is on an Isoblue shelf so has some free space around it.

In summer time it may get a little hotter.....some months to go before then....

Meanwhile, it seems to work just fine....

Hey Jason,

I took the time to re-read this thread again, twice actually, just to make sure I didn't miss anything. To be honest I can't agree with your interpretation in this case. Basically Thomas asked what, if any, value a US would bring to his system. What follows are various opinions and two posts from T38.45 and Wat that question the proposition of the US. T38.45 actually owned a US and sold it for reasons stated and Wat makes very valid points as to why he prefers his Mac option yet he does emphasize that it ultimately comes down to personal preferences. So far so good. Then follows your second post where you go on a rant, which was basically uncalled for. And yes,, it does come across quite defensively. But fair enough we all do it at times, I've done it more than once ;-)

Ultimately though, here is a guy who asks what value the US would add to his system. As such it is only natural that there will be plenty of different views, some pro, some against, others indifferent. Bottom line, those that argue against the US are just as valid and valuable as those who are in favour of it. If I were asking the question, I would want to hear both sides. The fact that some people repeat their arguments again and again in different threads has no bearing on the validity of their arguments, not least because the question gets asked over and over again by different people.

In any case, as Tog pointed out it's a forum, many different opinions come together here, doesn't mean we all have to agree with each other.

At the end of the day though I have yet to meet someone here who did not agree that ultimately all that counts is that all of us here are happy with our choices. And if my recollection doesn't fail me plenty of people congratulated you on your choice of the ND5, even some of those who favoured other options.

I and others argued that the nDAC provides superior SQ to the ND5 because it does. The Naim DAC is officially an upgrade to every Naim streamer up until NDS level as well as all their CDPs up to and including the CDX2.2. Nothing to argue about here, it's a fact. However, nobody ever said that you are to like it more. So no, you don't have to justify any of your choices. Nobody has to. Nor does anyone here expects anyone to. 

I don't quite agree with your last point. There are a lot of genuine discussions and good advice from many members here. Even those comments you found annoying were most likely provided with good intentions. 

Btw. the only reason I ever said people should stay away from the forum was in relation to the risk you run wanting to upgrade your system, if you stayed around. That I maintain, staying around the forum can easily induce the wish for upgrading. 

Anyways, enough of the arguments. Hope you are enjoying your UnitiServe mate 

Very strange that the discussion of a third-party power supply has gone this far.

It can only mean one thing.

Quite.

Indeed.

Interesting thread.

I am an owner of a US-SSD and a NDS/555PS DR. The US-SSD is powered by a third-party linear power supply (hint: the obvious logical choice).

I never use the US-SSD as a player, or a server, except when I tested US-SSD's capability. I just use the US-SSD as a ripper for converting my CD library into a wav file library. This function along is worth the bucks I paid for it. 

After reading the thread again, I feel, as an owner of US-SSD, I should write and share my experience.

Overall impression

For me, US-SSD is a problematic product in terms of reliablilty and its user interface (much improved by the launch of n-serve but still there's one aspect which is the main reason I don't use US as a server. I will elaborate further). Despite these, which I believe these are deal breakers for a lot of the current and potential owners of US, I am more than happy to keep it as it is so far the best ripping solution I can get off the shelf, after added some also off-the-shelf improvements I made to the US.

Why I get US-SSD

The US-SSD I have was a second-hand unit when I got it and a small cash consideration top-up with my 2-yr old SN about 18 months ago. The reason I went for the SSD-variant were, SSD is definitely quieter than HDD; 1 or 2TB space simply won't be enough to hold my entire CD collection, and US-HDD can't do RAID. It can only house one HDD. I am using a Synology DS412+ running 4 3TB Western Digital Red enterprise level HDD in a RAID-5 configuration. Went for a second hand unit also fit my purpose as I won't lose a lot if the US didn't meet my demand.

Ripping tests - Superior SQ embodied in the file

The first test I did, was ripping a CD by the US (just plugged into a dirty wall socket using the stock PS) and compared it with a rip by an iMac using iTunes. Both files were put into a USB memory stick and played via a nDAC at my friend's place. Previously I tested already the difference between a wav file ripped from a CD using iTunes and iMac and the same CD playing using the same iTunes and iMac. I found the SQ of the file was about 80% of CD playback. Both my friend and I found the files produced by PS were superior to the iMac rip in all aspects, resolution, dynamics, clarity etc. The files produced by iTunes and iMac were kind of flat and monotone. The file by US pretty much was the same as CD playback.

Following that test result, and my understanding and experience on how the quality of power and vibration control affect SQ, I made a few key tweaks to the US-SSD: added a designated third-party power supply, added a Powerline, had it got the same treatment for the electricity as my playback system, and put both the US-SSD and power supply on Fraim. Results were positive with each additional tweak.

Also having the CD demagnetized by demagnetizing device or ionizing fan prior to ripping brings huge improvement to the quality of the rip. Don't ask me why. The science behind’s beyond me. But a few of my friends listened to the comparison and all came to that conclusion.

I can further talk about by when after installing further enhancement to the NAS I truly believe that streaming files (NDS-Synology NAS combo) is superior than CD playback (NDS-CDX2.2 combo). But this is not in the scope of this post.

CD Playback

I plugged the US-SSD to the NDS/555PS DR using DC-1 BNC-BNC. The result was very disappointing. Miles behind CDX2.2 via NDS, can't even compete with Cambridge 752BD to NDS using DC-1 RCA-RCA. The sound was not coherent and was disengaging.

Problems of US - user interface

Both n-serve or US's web-based interface, they can't recognize Asian characters such as Chinese, Japanese and Korean. This is a huge problem for me as I have about 15% of my music collection in these Asian languages. This is the major reason why I use Synology NAS as media server but not US.

Problems of US - metadata source

Simply sucks. Wrong cover art, wrong track name (spelling and track sequence), wrong recording far too often to be usable. Nothing comparable to iTunes, which is 99.9999% reliable.

Problems of US - networking

This networking issue started after I had a change of the CD drive of the US. The old CD drive occasionally made scratches (this was a mechanical failure) to the CDs so I got that changed (It took my huge effort to find a drive from the same manufacturer as the stock CD drive used by Naim, which has been discontinued for more than 2 years). After the change, the US failed to recognize all the shares and stores on the Synology NAS and failed to create any new store on the NAS. That's not fixed even after a change of the SSD supplied by Naim, and had Phil checking my unit remotely twice.

I was sure this is a US issue, since all of the other devices, including the NDS, have no issues at all in accessing the NAS. Actually the US did have gained access to the NAS, as I could see the connection between the US and the NAS in the Synology DSM Manager. It's just that the US mysteriously couldn't see the NAS.

You may have a question by now so where do all the files ripped from CDs go if I can't create a store in the NAS. I have unlocked the SSD in the US (it's an option in n-serve, not an unauthorized tweak), and the files are temporarily stored there after ripping. The remaining space of the 8GB SSD is good for holding 4 CDs. I will delete the files in the SSD after I have copied the files to a designated folder in the NAS for streaming. I basically "tag" the wav file using the folder and file name.

Extra - US-SSD as server

I did test US-SDD as server, since it's on the same network as the NDS and see it. It sounds better than the heavily treated Synology NAS and the improvements were not difficult to notice; background was quieter, leading to better bass punch and improved separation and clarity at all frequencies audible. But whether it's because of the server software, or SSD vs. HDD, or the built of US (a heavily trimmed down PC) vs. Synology NAS that's something I can't test.

I started off with my Unitiserve straight into a DAC. I then upgraded to an NDX and used its DAC. For me this represented the biggest single backwards step I have ever taken in hifi.

Interesting as I was considering doing exactly this - chopping my nDAC in for an NDX, but still keeping the U/S. How does this change with adding an XPS to the NDX I wonder?

My first thought was to add the power supply into the NDX, I did this and it made an improvement but never enough to allow me to listen to my music without apologising for the sound. I still have the power supply feeding the NDX but I doubt it is doing much as I guess it is really powering the internal DAC that I no longer use. If you are local you are more than welcome to come and listen for yourself. I am always cautious about claiming improvements when I have not conducted double blind A-B tests. There was no obvious way for me to do this with the Unitiserve power supply nor the NDX power supply so I make only muted claims.

If you had an NDX, it would make more sense to stream into it rather than connecting directly, as it sounds better apparently.

In the system I was describing I do stream into the NDX, in three other Unitiserve systems I have I connect directly. If there is a difference I am afraid that I cannot discern it. In my testing it is the DAC that provides the real leverage. Frankly, the on-board DAC in the NDX made my ears bleed.

Ok, my mileage varies. Using 282/HicapDR/250.2 into ATC's I find the NDX native excellent. Adding a PSU seems to unbalance the sound.... Now to get the NDX to excel I feed into the NDAC.. put the 555PS on the NDAC then you have a combo that arguably is top of the stack.. And is phenomenal into a     552.

i find there is no sonic difference with unitiserve and third party upnp server such dbpoweramp Asset. Streaming wav using 100mbps duplex appears important.

incidentally a couple of years ago a few of us on this forum ripped using EAC, iTunes, dbpoweramp and Unitiserve , and we found no sonic difference between the files, and the sample data was completely identical down to every bit (I analysed using specialist software) which tallied with our sonic findings. If you are experiencing audio differences then look beyond the rip and the file for your reason why.  ( SMPS, transport jitter, RF noise etc)

Simon

Hi Wat,

I did't mean that moving the files from US to another UPnP server will improve the sound. The reason why I did that was solely for practical reasons as US-SSD didn't fulfill my needs in regard to a music server. However, I did test using US-SSD to distribute content and there was an audible improvement over the Synology UPnP, but whether the improvement was due to SSD vs. HDD, simple structure of US vs. more sophisticated build of the UPnP, the difference in server software between US-SSD and UPnP, I don't have further way to isolate each and test.

I must emphasize that the US I have been using is the SSD variant. The result may be different if it's the comparison between US-HDD and my Synology UPnP.

One thing I would also like to clarify on the notion I made, was that the files produced by different machines and software from the same CD record were bit perfect identical, but still there were sonic differences when playing back by the same streamer/DAC. In what form does the file hold that in its 1s & 0s I have no clue at all.

TBH I find it quite difficult to believe this stuff. In my mind it boarders on the esoteric. But I have to admit that I have never listened to the difference demagnetizing a CD makes or doesn't make to the SQ of a ripped CD.

I do believe though, that there is a lot of stuff going on in the Hifi realm that can be attributed to matters of the mind. Auto suggestion can be a very powerful phenomenon, to the point where you are actually hearing things sounding better. I remember a demo session at a Naim dealer once where the dealer suggested that taping the open DIN sockets at the back of the amp with coloured scotch tape would improve the sound. He was also adamant that he could hear sonic differences between black and red tape. 

Anyways, diamondblack, not wanting to dis your findings. I really ought to try it out myself one day.

Hi Simon,

For me, this is the tipping point.

Because of the superior ease to control NDS using n-stream, despite already having a designated wired managed switch to segregate the hi-fi components (NDS, the NAS for streaming, US etc), the designated switch was connected to the main WiFi router of the house network using Cat7 Ethernet cable. All the noises from the house network could flow to the NDS and thus deteriorated the streaming performance. At this point of time, playing back music using the CDX2.2+NDS gave better sound than streaming to NDS directly.

Not until when I installed a pair of single-mode duplex optical-Ethernet media converters and used the characteristics of optical fiber to filter the noises transmitted over Ethernet cables. The noise level for the streaming setup was lowered dramatically to a point that to make me a true believer in music streaming. 

Daniel, enough blah, blah blah. So we are not confused as to where I am coming from, I shall make this short and brief, if just to save the Forum from the torture of our debate.

If it's the case that people conveniently misunderstand the difference between pointing out (and which is arguably considered), the most negative aspect of the Forum as "seeking consensus" and not knowing this negative aspect is in itself seeking consensus through negative means, then there lies the unfortunate irony.

Now I will seek out the warm bosom of consensus in the 'cult' thread.

Jason.

Jason - if you are going to characterise Daniel's posts as mere "blah, blah , blah" - could you try to avoid paragraphs that only just make sense. I'm afraid paragraph 2 needs a lot of work if you to are to succeed in your quest for clarity.

Tog

Mr Tog, I'm glad your follow my posts with such negative enthusiasm.

Jason.