Fraim, Power Line or Hi Line

Posted by: Jude2012 on 29 October 2013

I realise that this question has probably been asked before, bit probably not in the context of my system (Mac mini>V1>200>PMC GB1s. I am using Merlin power blocks and Naim supplied mains leads and Chord Epic speaker cables, and a SNAIC.

I also know that a demo is the way forward, other than the fact that it I difficult to demo the Fraim. Therefore, any advice would be welcome.

My question is what would be priority of upgrade ? (I.e. Fraim/Farim Lite/ Lite and Fraim combo first ? Power Line ? It it doesn't matter, etc.).

I am extremely happy with the system, so I am not trying correct anything. It's more about budgeting and planning.

Look forward to hearing thoughts.

Jude
Posted on: 29 October 2013 by Harry

If I am happy with how my music sounds I will leave it alone. If curiosity got the better of me, based on my experience only, with the benefit of hindsight it would be HiLine first, Fraim second and PL last. But that's in my perfect world. Any of your candidates should effect a change and it is likely to be a change for the better.

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by hungryhalibut

I don't see how you can use a hiline, so that's £600 saved. 

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by Harry

Obvious now you say it!

 

Go PL then. Quick, easy and resellable, although it's unlikely you will want to.

 

Who'd have thought you'd come out of this thread richer?

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by Lightkeeper
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

I don't see how you can use a hiline, so that's £600 saved. 

I believe it is possible to make Hiline 4-4 by special order. Someone?

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by james n
Originally Posted by Lightkeeper:
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

I don't see how you can use a hiline, so that's £600 saved. 

Actually he can, Hiline 4-5.

Where does it fit. 4 pin out on the V1. 4 pin in on the 200 ?

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by hungryhalibut

A hiline connects source to preamp, not preamp to power amp. So in this system, a hiline is not relevant.

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by Jude2012
Thanks for the responses, folks.

Just checking my understanding, you are all of the view that a hi-line should be my first audition (assuming it  can be manufactured  to fit)?

BTW, love the phrase about coming out richer from this post....


Jude
Posted on: 29 October 2013 by hungryhalibut

No. You cannot use a hiline, period. You connect the V1 and power amp with a Snaic, NOT a hiline. 

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by Agricola

The standard SNAIC will be just fine. No reason to spend anything more, IME

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by Kevin Richardson
Yes.  The din4-din5 v1-->preamp works.  V1 had fixed out.  I have it in my system.
 
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

No. You cannot use a hiline, period. You connect the V1 and power amp with a Snaic, NOT a hiline. 

 

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by MangoMonkey

If you think it sensible to spend $1200 to connect a $2400 component to another...

 

You can get a $2500 chord sarum tuned aray snaic. ;-)

 

 

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by Kevin Richardson

@jude2012  Best upgrade is stillpoints.  Keep in mind I havent tried any of the Naim upgrades but I have to believe the stillpoints for ~325 USD is best bang for buck.  Try them... 

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by analogmusic

why are you not using NACA 5?

 

The naim sound is so finely tuned, I would not bother with anything not naim.

 

 

Posted on: 29 October 2013 by analogmusic

the NAP responds very well to a PL.

 

I would say it's essential.

Posted on: 30 October 2013 by Jude2012
Thanks all for the comments.

Based on the wide ranging responses on the Hi-line, I think I will give it a miss, especially as it will draw me in to comparing Chord DINs for example.

Good to hear that PLs work well, so, definitely will seek a home demo for one.

Fraim is the enigma as it is difficult to demo and has more appeal than SQ while being more expensive. Definitely would want my dealer to set up and dress.

NACA, well that is a new thought and again, I will not go there, even though it would be the cheapest option for me, as it would draw me into comparing many cables.  I know that purists will disagree (whether from Chord or Naim) that I should have the manufacturers stuff on the analogue side, However, I am not trying to change the sound of my system, just want to make it is performing at its best (perhaps a circular argument).

I also could do nothing and spend money on music.....lots to download or rip....

Thanks again, all.


Jude
Posted on: 30 October 2013 by mutterback

buy more music

Posted on: 30 October 2013 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by mutterback:

buy more music Music buying will happen for sure . Will be interesting so what I do end up doing and when regarding my other quest/ itch........

Posted on: 31 October 2013 by John R.

I compared DAC-V1/NAP 100 on Fraim and Fraim Lite: Fraim was way much better. Simply more of everything. The comparison was done using a CDX2 with DC1 as source and the power cables that come with the components. Powering both components with a Powerline improved things even further. To me Fraim and Powerlines are great upgrades for this wonderful combination.

Posted on: 31 October 2013 by Jude2012
@John

Really good to hear that there are worthwhile gains.  Also  big 'yikes'  as I know it's a question of when, not if regarding the Fraim and PL...

Jude
Posted on: 31 October 2013 by Lightkeeper

Ok, you heard them, it's simple, buy everything.

Posted on: 01 November 2013 by pcstockton

the upgrade is simple NACA5

Posted on: 02 November 2013 by hungryhalibut

I find Chord Odyssey 2 very effective, and it's actually very similar to A5 in its character. As the Epic is a shielded version of Odyssey i.e. with the same conductors, I can't see any reason to change. 

 

I use Quadraspire  Evo 4, having owned Fraim and Isoblue in the past. I switched from Isoblue simply because I wanted something with bigger gaps between the shelves as the SU gets rather warm, and the Isoblue extenders look weird. But you should not have that issue, so I'd recommend Isoblue to you. Hutter is another fine choice. 

 

One thing with Fraim is that the shelves have a cutout, which means they look odd if nothing is on the top shelf (I have a lamp on top of my Evo 4) or if the top item is small (like a V1), so you may wish to consider that. 

 

So I'd sort out the stand first, then get a Powerline or two. You can often get them exdem or lightly used for £300 or so, which is a much more palatable price to pay.

Posted on: 02 November 2013 by Jude2012

@pcstockton and @Hungrgyhalibut...

 

Thanks for the insights.  I have booked a home demo for a PL from the my dealer for later in November.

 

My feelings regarding NACA vs Epic is also that it is not with the change (at this point).  Also, it would mean messing with the jumpers on the speakers too (I have Chord Signature for that).

 

 

Regarding the equipment stand - I have discounted the Isoblue due to its looks (OK, I know this is on a par with my current Atacama 'bench').

 

Quadraspire and Hutter look interesting and will check them out (I am sure that one of the local dealers has these, else at the Bristol Hifi show?).  My thoughts regarding the Fraim was to have a Fraim base and one standard shelf, and a standard Fraim Lite for the TV on top.  The question is where to place the Mac mini? I am also told that the wood colours are slightly different between Fraim and Fraim Lite (willing to overlook this).

 

 

So, the stands are gonna take some time before I select and then buy.

 

 

Good tip regarding the PLs ex demo etc.  However, as the PL is easy to demo (and hence decide), cheaper and easy to implement, it is highly likely to be upgraded before the Fraim.  Does this mean I would not hear the benefit of the PL?

 

Any thoughts would be welcome...

 

Jude  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 02 November 2013 by hungryhalibut

I added a Powerline to my SuperUniti and found a huge improvement, and that's with the US sitting on a humble Quadraspire. 

 

When I had a big system years ago, I had two stacks of Fraim, which nowadays would cost about £5,000. But I don't believe it provides good value for money with more basic equipment such as the SU, or indeed the V1/200. Fraim lite is no doubt better than the Quadraspire, but at three times the price.

 

I've also had Isoblue, and that is close to Fraim, but if you don't like its looks there's no point investigating it. 

Posted on: 04 November 2013 by Jude2012
@hh. Good to hear that the PL was worthwhile without Fraim/Fraim Lite.

From checking the forum and the user manual for PLs, I am not clear whether a PL is supposed to be shared across a number of boxes or be dedicated to one box (i.e. one PL per box).

Yep the dilemma with Fraim- SQ vs cost vs looks.  Interesting reading from the other current thread ragarding Fraim and the hierarchy of Naim.  This will be slow decision for me as there are atlleast four options to consider.

Jude