why again are Naim streamers not supporting Spotify?
Posted by: Louis-Andre on 25 November 2013
Spotify is good if you listen to middle-of-the -road, easy listening music.
Rubbish. There are things on there you have definitely never heard of.
Dear ,Mark.
Just like your cycling thread I would not expect any other kind or contribution from you.
From now on I will not waste any saliva(typing)responding to any of your posts.
Respectfully,
Tony
Spotify is good if you listen to middle-of-the -road, easy listening music.
Rubbish. There are things on there you have definitely never heard of.
Dear ,Mark.
Just like your cycling thread I would not expect any other kind or contribution from you.
From now on I will not waste any saliva(typing)responding to any of your post.
Respectully,
Tony
Just went to check for the new Burial EP. Its not on there yet (not out for another week). I enjoyed listening to Endorphin and a few tracks of Untrue again though...
https://play.spotify.com/track/7qDXwcBR4SOJ4BSi1JNcdP
All sorts out there. You don't even need a big hi-fi or Dire Straits / Beatles collection to enjoy it.
Strange. I search for Bob Dylan and came up with 118 albums, all by Bob Dylan. I am located in France.
Reading the Qubuz (sic) thread, on this forum, that seems to be part of the problem. Different country, different content and, maybe, application.
I really tried to stay away for this topic. Spotify is good if you listen to middle-of-the -road, easy listening music. I tried it for 48hs and most of the stuff I searched for could not be found but I can find them on CD or Vinyl. If you fancy listening to an unsigned band who have just released an Ep, just forget about. Money spinner, I say!
DRM restricted by four major labels.Should be called SpotiSucks!
Actually, most of what I listen to on it is from small, indie acts. Nothing MOR on my playlists, though Spotify certainly has plenty of that.
What do you suggest that has more of that?
Apropos of this thread, Stuff recently issued a glowing review of the UQ2. Their one criticism:
"The only issue is a lack of a music streaming service such as Spotify or Napster. This may be a device designed to make the most of CD-quality and high-resolution audio, but we don't think there's anything wrong with slumming it some lower-quality streams every once in a while, and it's shame Naim doesn't currently support that. You can, of course, connect your iOS device to the USB socket and access whichever service your prefer that way, but it's not really the same thing."
Agree completely. There really needs to be a way to get more content natively into Naim streamers. I thought airplay was going to be Naim's approach, but after years of delay, who knows?
Please don't get stuck on Spotify and other music services/clients, they're complicated and don't need to get integrated onto streamers. What we need is just the long promised Airplay.
Every app and music service could be streamed onto existing Naim streamers (from our N-stream handling iOS devices) IF they'd only support the promised Airplay already.
There's just no excuse for the continued lack of Airplay support. 2014 is at the door ffs...
Please don't get stuck on Spotify and other music services/clients, they're complicated and don't need to get integrated onto streamers. What we need is just the long promised Airplay.
Every app and music service could be streamed onto existing Naim streamers (from our N-stream handling iOS devices) IF they'd only support the promised Airplay already.
There's just no excuse for the continued lack of Airplay support. 2014 is at the door ffs...
I'm with you. Airplay would be the best and most flexible solution and is long overdue.
Please don't get stuck on Spotify and other music services/clients, they're complicated and don't need to get integrated onto streamers. What we need is just the long promised Airplay.
Every app and music service could be streamed onto existing Naim streamers (from our N-stream handling iOS devices) IF they'd only support the promised Airplay already.
There's just no excuse for the continued lack of Airplay support. 2014 is at the door ffs...
Forget Airplay, all agrees that it is not stable and what we want is a solution that at least can handle 16 bit streaming, since 16 bit streaming is offered by several streaming Companies. Something like Songcast makes much more sense and no Money needs to go to the Apple people.
Claus
We music streamers are early adopters/pioneers in a new music replay paradigm.
Not so long ago many people were fiddling about with computers and DAC's from obscure companies that at the time were proclaimed as the best thing since sliced bread and of which we hear never a word on the forum these days.
Naim have a business to sustain and navigate through all this change and uncertainty - the risks of fouling it up are enormous.
So Paul has made a public statement about Airplay that was ill-advised, Naim are hedging their bets on streaming services and the UnitiServe is overpriced. To begin with they tried to charge for the Apps to control these new devices. These seem like pretty small missteps to me, but in my view the last of them was the least excusable.
Anyone choosing to spend £'000's on a streamer at this stage in their evolution is on the other side of this uncertain equation and so they too are taking a risk. For instance, the software update to deliver the "perfect" feature set for their personal preferences may never arrive.
That's why I'm a Sonos man for now and am hanging on to the CDX2 even though I don't use it much. I expect to be in this state for some time to come, enough sound quality for casual (ie most) listening, great interface, the functionality I want (Hi-Res on my main system is currently of very little appeal) and small £'00's.
You pays your money and you makes your choice, most choices won't provide everything ideally you'd like and a new choice is likely to emerge quite soon.
Naim deserve a lot more credit than they're getting on this thread.
Olly
Any update on spotify's Inclusion.
... and on EXCLUSION of some internet streams that worked before, perhaps...? 
Bobby
Yeah, an official response would be nice. Last I heard it was supposed to come in May. I kind of assumed they meant the year 2014... 
I think they may have answered this question indirectly along with a couple of others in the Muso news article.
It says that the Muso will have "... native support for popular streaming services." and further on talks about the control app.
"A Muso control app for iPad, iPhone and iPod as well as Android devices allows you to create playlists and play your favourite albums on the go or from the sofa. Offering simple controls and classic Naim design, the app also allows access to millions of high quality internet radio stations. The new control app will be available to download for iOS and Android devices in September 2014 and will be compatible with existing Naim streaming products as well as Muso. More details will follow for existing Naim customers closer to launch in September."
It would make sense that if the capability to stream Spotify is coming it will be around the same time.
"early adopters/pioneers in a new music replay paradigm."
Whilst makes listening to music seem very brave, dangerous and exciting it is also madly delusional.
Tog
I personally cannot see Naim getting involved with Spotify, it's not what there about. If they were to get involved with any in my opinion it would be Qobuz.
Naim streamers were developed before Spotify went global in 2011. I expect the next generation will incorporate Spotify and/or Qobus.
+1 for Apple Airplay
I love love love my QUTE, but it really makes no sense to be able to listen to a million different low bit rate vTuner stations....
I usually stream from IHEARTRADIO or SPOTIFY or RDIO or BEATSMUSIC or even Apple's new RADIO feature.
Thanks 
Just hang an express off it, this really is not difficult or expensive, hide it behind the qute and you can pretend to your friends it has airplay (and spotify)
Allen, I agree. I have been just looking at the Qobuz APIs and they don't appear to be too onerous... the limited buffer space on the streamers for lossless web streaming might be the only drawback and require a good web/LAN connection.
Simon
I am hoping for online services enablement via software/firmware in September, but I would not be shocked if the path to getting there requires a streamer board upgrade. If it does, I'll likely take a pass, as my $50 aptX-capable bluetooth dongle continues to perform flawlessly for 320kbps from Spotify.
If Qobuz come to the US, I suspect I'll need an aptX source in order to stream 16/44.1, something beyond my iPad.
ATB.
Hook
I bought a 2nd hand SONOS box a couple of weeks ago and have been listening to the Qobuz FLAC collection. Not as good as the NS01 - but not at all bad.
I suspect that any Naim offerings will be Streamer only.
Overall the SONOS will do me for a few years, and I will buy and rip CDs that I really enjoy.
M
Yes, Simon, the buffers did cross my mind, currently the streamers cope with 320 rate for internet radio, and services like Spotify are currently capped at that, but streaming lossless (like Qobuz) could be an issue. Maybe Naim will offer replacement streaming boards with larger buffers, if that is an issue, and that would be criticised for their myopia in not providing large enough buffers on high-end / high cost equipment.
P.S. And yes, one's home network and broadband service would have to be in fine fettle to cope with 320 or lossless.
Given a 10-year old Sonos unit of approx value £100 easily buffers Qobuz, a more recent Naim streamer would be very under-specified if it could not.
One rudimentary test of your Naim streamer's buffer, which might work, is to pull the ethernet cable mid track and see how long it continues playing for.
My guess is it has more to do with the way the software has been written. I would also imagine they may find themselves with new (Muso etc) and old software to maintain.
Personally I feel they might have been better served trying to do a deal with Sonos to use their software. Remember Nokia? Best hardware, tried to do their own thing on the software....
On my 5 years old Squeezebox radio or what it is called, WIMP losless flac streaming has until now never had a dropout issue.
My guess with muso is that it is a totally new product, different from the current line both of streamers and servers. I like my ns01 server very much, but in terms of hardware you can not call it current. However a mini pc that can run Windows XP should be able to cope with anything in terms of streaming. I am sure the problem is to maintain a windows based system, that is different than Muso and the streamers.
Claus
Yes, Simon, the buffers did cross my mind, currently the streamers cope with 320 rate for internet radio, and services like Spotify are currently capped at that, but streaming lossless (like Qobuz) could be an issue. Maybe Naim will offer replacement streaming boards with larger buffers, if that is an issue, and that would be criticised for their myopia in not providing large enough buffers on high-end / high cost equipment.
P.S. And yes, one's home network and broadband service would have to be in fine fettle to cope with 320 or lossless.
Given a 10-year old Sonos unit of approx value £100 easily buffers Qobuz, a more recent Naim streamer would be very under-specified if it could not.
One rudimentary test of your Naim streamer's buffer, which might work, is to pull the ethernet cable mid track and see how long it continues playing for.
My guess is it has more to do with the way the software has been written. I would also imagine they may find themselves with new (Muso etc) and old software to maintain.
Personally I feel they might have been better served trying to do a deal with Sonos to use their software. Remember Nokia? Best hardware, tried to do their own thing on the software....
Well, we all sincerely hope so, I for one, will not be too impressed if a streaming board upgrade is necessary for my NDS. But you never know, and Naim are completely mute on this until September I guess.
It is interesting how Naim will cope with all these Web-based services, their approach to software has been very proprietary (mainly as a result of Streamnet / Naimnet adopted at the outset of their servers), maybe the new stuff will cope easily with it. I just can't help feeling there might be a bit of a nightmare scenario brewing though, otherwise they would surely have announced that current streamers will adopt all the services and features of the new Muso based products with firmware / software upgrades. But hardware upgrades have not been ruled out, and nothing has been said other than the new software will supplant existing (without going so far as to say it will match all features provided from the off).
Allen
Sonos software works across all their kit regardless of age. No mean feat given the price point and age. The software is so much better than itunes etc too.
Naim may prefer to store the music index on their kit going forward as with Sonos. I feel this is a better approach than upnp etc. That may be a hardware challenge looking backwards.
I don't think it is hard in the grand scheme of things to deal with the different web services. These are all variations on the file search and retrieval theme. You'd need to build the main engine so it is extensible. If this has not really been done in earlier iterations then that may be a problem.
I am sure Naim will do their best for everyone. Expect they knew very well their choice was to invest in software in earnest or not do it all. Doubt you will be disappointed.