Obama Care: Res Ipsa Loquitur:

Posted by: Russ on 25 November 2013

Some time ago, I endured the whips and scorns cast by many of my well-meaning European and American friends by having the gall to question the policies of the chosen one whom I should very well know is better able to guide my future than I am.  At that time, I promised all of those who sang my praises on that thread that at some point I would pontificate on Obama Care.  Well, I wanted to, but I have been too busy watching with a combination of horror and amusement, the vast body of material which we are now provided by the Democrats themselves.  At first you could only hear about it on the hated Fox News channel, but eventually even the liberally-oriented cable organizations as well as the New York Times and Washington Post had to acknowledge what was going on. 

 

Now, Obama Care was passed when the Democrats held not only the White House, but both houses of Congress.  Not a single Republican voted for it—all of them predicting disaster.  The Democrat Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi famously said: “We need to pass the bill so we can find out what is in it.”  Go Nancy!  Heartfelt Republican opposition was characterized as obstructionism and racism.   The bill mandated that all private health insurance plans include:

 

Insurers not being able to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions

 

Insurers not being able to drop coverage for those who become sick

 

A ban on price discrimination based on sex, medical history, or community rating

 

Allowing “children” or dependents to remain on a parent’s policy through age 26

 

No lifetime or annual coverage caps on essential benefits—broadly defined in the bill as:

 

"ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care."

 

Contraception supplies mandatory

 

Elimination of co-pays and deductibles     

 

And with all of these “freebies”, Obama promised:

  1.  Health Insurance will be more affordable—across the board—saving families an average of $2,500.00 per year.
  2. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.
  3. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan------PERIOD!

Hell, we really don’t need any of our mythical Supreme Beings to bring about miracles—we have Obama!

 

Now of course, like all the freebies promised by this unapologetic socialist—(who occupies the same Oval Office where Franklin Roosevelt worked day and night with Sir Winston Churchill to defeat Adolph Hitler and where William Jefferson Clinton worked day and night to get hum jobs from Monica Lewinski,) this was patently and obviously false—at the very least to anyone who could add two and two.  Unfortunately, it is apparent that a majority of the American People—at least a majority of Democrats, did not fit into that category.  The very Democratic leaders who pushed through passage of the bill are all on videotape parroting Obama’s talking points—word for word, just as they parroted President Bush’s words about Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction—having seen the same intelligence reports he saw.

 

But in the case of Obama Care, they have proven themselves to have been lying, opportunistic weasels—just like their Boss.

 

Forget Operation Fast and Furious where Obama’s Attorney General sold guns to the Mexican Drug Cartels.  Forget the so-called Justice Department’s illegal investigation of Fox News executives.  Forget IRS (the same bunch who are supposed to enforce the individual mandate of Obama Care) targeting Tea Party and other conservative organizations.  Forget Obama and Hillary turning their backs on their own ambassadorial staff in Benghazi and letting them be murdered.  Forget their stonewalling Congress in all of the investigations of these matters.  Obama says he did not know about any of those scandals. 

 

Of course, he also said “If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan---PERIOD.” In the past, Presidents have been held accountable for lying.  George H.W. Bush famously said: "Mark my words--no new taxes."  When he later raised taxes, the American People understandably and rightly held him responsible.  Obama has no more races to run, and it is doubtful that his own fall from grace will affect the coronation of Hillary Rodham Clinton.  We shall see.

 

But as I say, forget all that—Obama Care affects millions of Americans and it is now obvious to all that its creator and namesake lied.  He didn’t forget—he didn’t misrepresent—he didn’t mis-state—He Lied!  53 percent of the American People now believe he is not trustworthy.  Well, Yeah!  We Racist Republicans (RR) were trying to tell you the truth five years ago.

 

So Obama Care got passed—all 2,200 pages of it.  The website was contracted out to a Canadian firm that had been dismissed from many other projects for failed results.  They had 3 ½ years to build the goddamn site and screwed it up royally.  Not with glitches—but with a completely faulty architecture.  As of today, 40 percent of the underlying structure—the back end—is not even built—the part that uh, actually pays the premiums to insurance companies!

 

But forget the website as well—that is the least of it.  So far 5.5 million Americans—almost all in the individual market-- have received cancellation notices from their companies.  Why?  Because they do not meet the list of some ten or so non-negotiable coverage items required by Obama Care.  So a 22 year-old male in perfect health with no wife or children who had a policy that did not include mamagrams, pap smears, or birth control pills now gets his relatively cheap policy cancelled.  But what the hell?  All he has to do is find a “better” policy for him on healthcare.gov—(once it starts working in 2045).  Oh, sure, the price may be higher—gee, ya think?  Now it is obvious that when the shit hits the fan with the individual mandate (recently delayed by Obama until two weeks after the 2014 midterm elections in order to protect several Democratic Senators who are going ape-shit over their own vulnerability) as many as one-hundred-million Americans may well lose their “crummy” plans.

 

Soon after passage, Obama granted “waivers” to over 1,500 organizations, including AARP and many of the huge labor unions who had helped him get it passed.  Several important states were given exemptions in order to appease them politically.   Now the major unions are going ape-shit because they have read the bill and discovered they may have to pay a reinsurance fee for each of their covered members.  Oh, but I forgot, Obama is considering a waiver for that as well.  After all, they voted correctly—and that is the only important thing to him.

 

But why would Obama lie about: (1) the cost of the bill to the government, (2) the cost of the bill to individuals, (3) the ability of individuals to keep their doctors and plans, (4) the fact that deductibles would go sky-high, (5) the fact that the intention behind the bill was, from the first, to do away with the private insurance market,   and most importantly that (6) the bill was (now acknowledged by even the New York Times) a giant scheme for the re-distribution of wealth?

 

BECAUSE HAD TOLD THE TRUTH, HE WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ELECTED!

 

Now, the heathens are truly raging, the rats are leaving the ship, the lights have been turned on in the kitchen, the roaches are running under the stove, the insane are running the asylum, and the Democrats are pulling out all the political stops.  The Senate has changed the rules of cloture for filibustering, available in one form or another for over 200 years, so that a minority of Senators can no longer block appointees to the D.C. Court of Appeals—the second most powerful court in the land, because it is the court which decides administrative and regulatory cases and controversies—especially important to the cockroaches in today’s Washington--any challenges to administrative end-runs around Congress—including the Republican House of Representatives.  Hmmm.

 

Predictably Obama has chosen the strategy of blaming: (1) the insurance companies--(for cancelling the policies--even though it was his law that forced them to,) (2) the media (for having the guts to dare to question Him,) and (3) most hilarious of all, the Republicans--(even though not one voted for the garbage that became Obama Care and not one was consulted on either the content of the bill or the construction of His website.)

 

Obama is a sad, sad story.  Don’t get me wrong—he is enormously intelligent, apparently a great husband and father.  People who know him like him.  Until now, even with all the cynicism and incompetence, his likeability has kept his approval rating up.  And he is a political genius.  He knows how to campaign.  But to some extent he is either incompetent in the realm of actually governing OR in some ways, he is devilishly clever in governing in a radical way and then covering up the truth. 

 

Even sadder, as the first black man elected President of the United States, he might have been the inspiration even I, and others like me who knew where he came from politically and what he really stood for, (Chicago and the principles of Saul Alinsky) hoped he might be.   But sadly, a political hack from Chicago, black, white, or polka-dotted, is still a hack.  He promised to be a uniter—but no one has been more divisive.  And make no mistake—it is not white Republicans or Tea Party members who have created the division because he is black.  Rather, it is he and his race-baiting supporters who are vicious enough to claim that it is impossible to oppose the policies of a black president—UNLESS you are a racist.  There must, in short, be a double standard for blacks in that office.  And that, my friends, is by far the most damaging racist, paternalistic view one could hold. 

 

Black Americans of course support Obama by a factor of nearly 10-1.  But they make up only 15 percent of the country.  A very great part of white America elected President Obama.  (Fewer voted for him in 2012, so must one assume that they became racists overnight?)

It may be too late to stop the Democratic coalition in this country: too many checks are being written and there is, after all, the promise of all that wealth redistribution.  (Yummm!)  But at least, this train wreck that is Obama Care has proved beyond any doubt three things:

 

First, Barack Obama has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be capable of lying to the American People about anything and everything. 

 

Second:The kind of big government advocated by Barack Obama and his heir-apparent Hillary Clinton, is incompetent to either formulate sound policy or to execute it.

 

Third: Barack Obama is, whatever he may claim, attempting to introduce European Socialism into the United States, even as that ideology is being almost universally discredited.

 

The next step to "fix" Obama Cae will be single-payer socialized medicine--what they all said they wanted in the first place!

 

But now President Obama has turned from destroying the nation through domestic policies that are either naively incompetent or cynically socialistic—or both, in favor of the kind of pathetic foreign policy demonstrated by Neville Chamberlain in 1939—in the present case, leaving the Israelis to either attack Iran or allow themselves to be turned into a parking lot.  (But that’s another story.)  Or perhaps I am being unfair—The President of the United States says it is a good agreement.  But then he also said: “If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan—PERIOD!”

Posted on: 07 December 2013 by Onthlam
Originally Posted by Russ:
Kevin R: 

It is either acceptable for public officials to lie or it is not. 

Obama obviously and demonstrably lied in order first, to ensure passage of the ACA, and second, to ensure his own reelection. 

If you do not think Obama lied,

OR

If you are willing to argue that his blatant lies were, for whatever reason, acceptable, (say because he is so much smarter than the rest of us and it was OK to lie to us to give us what we really need)

then, we probably do not have much to say to one another except to politely disagree.

Best regards,

Russ

My second favorite post of the year

Marc

Posted on: 07 December 2013 by Drew Turner

I think the passage time will show Obama to be one of the greatest presidents who ever served. But then I'm Canadian. I don't watch Fox News , listen to Rush Limbaugh , Glen Beck or allow myself to be influenced by the vitriolic , strident views of the extreme religious right that hijacked the Republican Party.  

Posted on: 07 December 2013 by Drew Turner
Originally Posted by Russ:
Kevin R: 

It is either acceptable for public officials to lie or it is not. 

Obama obviously and demonstrably lied in order first, to ensure passage of the ACA, and second, to ensure his own reelection. 

If you do not think Obama lied,

OR

If you are willing to argue that his blatant lies were, for whatever reason, acceptable, (say because he is so much smarter than the rest of us and it was OK to lie to us to give us what we really need)

then, we probably do not have much to say to one another except to politely disagree.

Best regards,

Russ

 

Posted on: 07 December 2013 by Drew Turner

Oh yes. Let's bring back Bush/Cheney . They could teach old Barak a few things about honesty and integrity !!! Or better yet ... Elect Ted Cruz for President and include Sarah Palin as Vice President .

Maybe we could even get rid of the constitution and run the country  as a theocracy !!! Let's put Mr. Trump in charge of immigration . He could be solely in charge of making sure future presidency elects haven't secretly altered they're birth certificates . 

Posted on: 08 December 2013 by Kevin Richardson
Originally Posted by Russ:
Kevin R: 

It is either acceptable for public officials to lie or it is not. 

Obama obviously and demonstrably lied in order first, to ensure passage of the ACA, and second, to ensure his own reelection. 

If you do not think Obama lied,

OR

If you are willing to argue that his blatant lies were, for whatever reason, acceptable, (say because he is so much smarter than the rest of us and it was OK to lie to us to give us what we really need)

then, we probably do not have much to say to one another except to politely disagree.

Best regards,

Russ

I certainly respect your views on this matter.  The integrity of elected officials is important.  However, what President Obama said was not a lie.  I believe he said:

 

1.  If you like your insurance plan you can keep it

2.  If you like your doctor you can continue to see him/her

 

Is this the lie about which you take issue?   I don't think he lied about these two facts.

 

1.  Insurance companies are the ones that decided which plans to keep.  The insurance companies could have opted to make the plans compliant with the new regulations.  I don't know why any company would give up customers and not offer them a reasonable alternative.  I can only guess that those previous plans / insurers were pretty crappy and sketchy.  I know from examining plans from half a dozen states that there are now reasonably priced options available from trusted insurers (Blue Cross / Blue Shield)

 

2.  You can still see any doctor you want.  I can't imagine any doctor not accepting any of the new insurance plans.  I have yet to hear of a physician not contracting with Blue Cross.  If, for some reason, your new insurance plan is not accepted by your physician, you can still see him.  The government certainly isn't going to stop you.

 

I feel strongly that every person should have access to health care regardless of wealth.  If somebody believes they don't need quality insurance then they also need to accept responsibility for any health care services received.  That's the real problem....  People often believe they don't need it but as soon as they have a medical emergency very very very few are willing to not do whatever it takes to save their life.

 

I personally have benefited from the ACA.  I can now get the quality health insurance that has become a modern necessity.  As a small business owner, the previous insurance market was filled with shady companies that saw nothing wrong with 30-40% annual price increases. The total cost for my family of 3 for a Platinum plan is about $900 / month.  That price is guaranteed for a year and is through a respected non profit organization.  Seems pretty reasonable to me given the peace of mind it provides.  Is it affordable?  In Nebraska, I see many middle income homes with new $50k pickup trucks parked in the driveway.  I guess if the middle class can afford such luxury then they should be able to afford a necessity.

Posted on: 13 December 2013 by totemphile
Originally Posted by Russ:
Kevin R: 

It is either acceptable for public officials to lie or it is not. 

Obama obviously and demonstrably lied in order first, to ensure passage of the ACA, and second, to ensure his own reelection. 

If you do not think Obama lied,

OR

If you are willing to argue that his blatant lies were, for whatever reason, acceptable, (say because he is so much smarter than the rest of us and it was OK to lie to us to give us what we really need)

then, we probably do not have much to say to one another except to politely disagree.

Best regards,

Russ

Yes Obama lied!

 

BUT so did Bush, Cock and Donald. 

 

Thing is, their lies were far worse and all encompassing. In fact, I dare say, they probably never said a word of truth during their entire time in office. Except when planning the next big coupe how to screw the nation amongst each other of course.

 

Hell, there's a good likelihood they were even involved in planning 9/11.

 

Except Bush Junior of course. He was the dumb ass they left out so he looked surprised on TV when the news was broken to him....

 

But the real problem?

 

Corporate America, one huge cesspit, sucking the nation dry, leaving body bags along the roadside and nobody gives a fu*k!

 

America, you can make it, if you fake it. At least until one day when it's going to be a bad awakening and ain't gonna be pretty.

 

But all you gotta do is get you stocks in order right?

 

Well, good luck!

 

Posted on: 13 December 2013 by totemphile
Originally Posted by MangoMonkey:

A friend had to go in to the ER for sudden high BP. They put him in an ambulance (even though I would have been fine driving him to the other hospital) and kept him one night under observation.

 

If he did not have insurance, the total medical bill would have been close to $25000. The 3 mile ambulance journey was itself $998. Now, the bill they presented the insurance company was $25K. Because it was 'In-Network' the negotiated rates brought it down to around $10000 total. He had to pay around $1000 out of pocket, and the insurance company took care of the rest.

I wonder how much of these fees feeds their bottom line profit?

 

Posted on: 16 December 2013 by Russ

Well, I must admit Obamacare is looking better and better:

 

The top clinics in the U.S: Sloan Kettering, Cleveland Clinic, M.D. Anderson, Cedar-Sanai, and Mayo Clinic, are announcing they will not honor the lower fees the policies available through the ACA offer.  The website is the least of Obama's difficulties.  Nearly six million people on the individual market--who had insurance of their own choosing--have had policies cancelled. 

 

The bill itself is over 2,000 pages "supported" by somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000 pages of regulations, which essentially represents a means for the Executive to do whatever it pleases.  

 

Thousands of "Navigators" have been hired--mainly through radical left "community organization" groups in Obama's back pocket.  One of their jobs is to take down personal information susceptible to identity theft.  They receive 20 hours of training.  Several have been surreptitiously filmed urging clients to lie about their income in order to get subsidies.  The Secretary of Health and Human Services has admitted that they do not undergo background checks and that felons are able to join their ranks. 

 

Testimony before Congress has revealed that there is virtually no security on the website.  When asked for documents, the Administration says they would provide a "road map" for hackers--as if hackers can't figure out on their own Obama's signature system is a sieve.

 

The Administration, ("the most transparent in history ) has instructed contractors they have a duty not to give Congress documents based on contractual agreements not to communicate with "Third Parties".  Uhhh, groups such as Parliament or the U.S. Congress are not exactly "third parties."

 

It is now evident (not from the hated, vicious, stupid, moronic Fox News, but would you believe the Washington Post?) that Obama and the Democrats, while decrying Republicans as standing in the way of important protective regulations, delayed, until after the 2012 election, implementation (and even open discussion) of certain regulations relating to Health Care, Occupational Safety, and Environmental Protection.  Most lately, once it was evident his Health Care plan is a complete disaster, he delayed the individual mandate (which will result in 50 to 100 million persons who didn't need help with insurance in the first place losing their policies) until after--drum roll--you guessed it--the 2014 election!!!!!I have said before that this man is a great politician--possibly the best ever--but sadly, that's all he is--and those of you who continue to blame Bush after five years of Obama's leadership "from behind", are, with respect, in deep denial. 

 

I have to admit that I enjoy watching these weasels writhing.  But I am sad for my country--not only those of us who knew what Obama would be--but even more so for those who voted for him and whom he betrayed.

 

Best regards,

 

Russ

Posted on: 17 December 2013 by Hook

Russ -

 

I just spoke with a guy I know very well.  He's worked for Mayo Clinic for many years, and so I asked him about the claim made in your post. He pointed me to Mayo's web site where they make it crystal clear that they will file claims against any insurance company or plan that you, the patient, authorize. But of course, coverage varies by plan. This is the way it has always worked, and nothing changes under the Affordable Care Act.  Insurance companies continue to limit fee payments using a schedule of "usual, customary and reasonable" (UCR) allowances. Again, this is the way it has always worked, and continues to work under the ACA. To suggest anything has changed, or to suggest that any of these hospitals will now not offer services because of the ACA is a false statement.

 

Mayo and the other clinics you mention are the best of the best.  They are research hospitals that treat the sickest of the sick, often using extremely expensive experimental programs. Their fee schedules are much higher than other hospitals.  You can still get care at Mayo under a policy purchased through the ACA, but as before, you (the patient) will be responsible for payment of your account, including any balances due to the UCR limitations dictated by insurance companies.

 

Fortunately, in exchange for higher premiums, most policies will offer a cap on yearly expenditure. It is important for people with serious medical conditions to budget according to this maximum potential yearly spend. It's the only way to budget against increasingly low UCR limits.

 

What has changed under the ACA is that people with pre-existing conditions can now get insurance coverage, and this means that insurance companies will incur higher overall costs.  And as they have always done, insurance companies will maintain their exorbitant profit margins by passing these additional costs along to consumers by raising rates, lowering UCR limits, increasing the maximum yearly out of pocket, and so on.

 

It is not new news that insurance companies are greedy, corrupt, self-serving and under-regulated. But to blame their predatory behavior on the ACA is completely misleading, and to say that these top research hospitals will not accept fee payments and honor insurance policies purchased on the individual market though ACA-established exchanges is incorrect.

 

Hook

 

PS - You appear to be repeating elements of a report being circulated by watchdog.org. Unfortunately, this report was picked up by a number of news agencies. The report is nothing more than the usual Koch brothers sponsored fear mongering.  

 

PPS - Feel free to have the last word. I need stay out of these political threads, as I simply do not have the time to exchange a large number of long posts. I felt it was important to correct your false statement, but I will leave it to others to respond to the rest of your right wing political rhetoric.

Posted on: 17 December 2013 by NickSeattle

Thank you, Hook.

 

Nick

Posted on: 17 December 2013 by Russ

Hook,

 

Understood about lack of time--I used to work for a living too.    Accordingly, I will grant this thread the rest it richly deserves by now and close with this: Your correction is noted and accepted--Like the President, I misspoke.  Of course you are right that providers will file a claim on any patient's behalf to any insurance company for which the patient provides a policy number. 

 

Also, clinics, such as the ones I listed have always provided a great deal of care free of charge to those who could not afford it--(one of many reasons that those who choose to say that the poor in the U.S. lack access to health care.)

 

Properly stated, the top-notch providers, which as you say spend a great deal on research, have traditionally been what is known as in networkfor many policies which have now been cancelled and millions more which will be cancelled once the Obama Care ship hits the rocks following his beloved elections in 2014.  As I am sure you know, Insurers reach agreements with a broad range of health care providers to create a network of providers to which the pool of insured persons will have access.

The agreements provide that providers will accept payment of X dollars for Y services.  The insurers will, as you say, make payment to out of network providers, but in amounts stated in the policy, that always leave a significantly greater amount to be paid out-of-pocket by the patient.

What is being observed so far (to the extent that one can tell, given the lies, obfuscations, and refusal to release data by the administration) is that the people signing up under the exchanges so far tend to be those who are older and sicker.  The young and healthy are staying away in droves.  And why, one wonders, would they not!

So all indications are that, due to the poor quality of the pools, insurers will offer payments to in-network providers that such top-drawer  providers and research clinics as Mayo will not be able to accept.  Thus, while they will continue to provide services and bill the insurers, for many who were able to access them as in-network providers under the policies which have been and will be cancelled, they will NOT  be able to access them in that way under the ACA policies--and will have to pay the difference out-of-pocket.

 

And while I agree with you that insurance companies often overreach (largely due not to lack of regulation but the fact that one cannot cross state lines easily when choosing a company), then why has Obama set aside a huge pool of money to compensate the greedy bastards if they cannot make a profit under Obamacare?

 

Here is an interesting article from the Washington Post that describes the situation that is developing:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...4301ced81_story.html

 

The truth is that this is not about providing insurance to those who cannot afford it--if that were the case, all Obama had to do, with a majority in both houses, was to create a pool of the uninsured, and then subsidize those who could not pay.  Instead, he literally attempted a takeover of the entire health care insurance industry.  He didn't just provide insurance for those who couldn't pay--he took it away from tens of millions who already had it.  (Hopefully, most of those were evil Republicans, but his falling approval ratings would indicate otherwise.)  And he succeeded.  Now when the system falls apart, he will blame Republicans, all of whom voted against the debacle, and insurance companies who were stupid enough to bend over for him, hoping for a profit.  Then he (or Hillary) will push for what he really wants--socialized medicine akin to that in Europe.  What chance is there that a government that can't even build a website can provide patients with the kind of care they get from M.D. Anderson?

Best regards,

 

Russ

 

 

Posted on: 19 December 2013 by MangoMonkey
Software is harder.