SuperUniti w/ Macbook Pro

Hi Nick,

You need to run as fast as possible from the "dealer" you are getting advice from.

The idea of connecting an external bluetooth DAC to a 5K piece of kit with a far superior internal DAC is insanity. The reference to the issues the SU has handling large "external drives" is nonsense. I think what the dealer was probably referring to was that the front USB input on the SU will only read 32 GB FAT memory sticks or smaller. That said, if your SU is correctly set up on your network you can stream (wired or wireless) files stored on a drive as large as you would like to your SU. Personally I have a 2 TB drive with about 1.7 GB of music files... works like a charm. I also have an Apple TV connected via toslink cable, a turntable / phono preamp connected via analogue cables, and an Oppo 105 connected by both analogue and digital cables.

You can't go wrong with the SU... it's a great piece of kit, but you are getting some seriously bad advice from someone who clearly has no clue what they are talking about. Find a reputable dealer, familiar with current Naim gear.... and have fun :-)

Hi Zipperheadbanjo, nice name! 

To be honest I was so confused initially, I went to one dealer who said one thing then another who said something different....  I wanted the ability to use Spotify and also VLC (for movies linked to my projector), I think thats why they recommended the bluetooth.  

The set up I have now is:

SuperUniti: Allows iPod to be plugged in directly.  Also DAB radio.

Apple Airport Express (linked to Digital 3 via toslink to the Airport Express Optical out) this enables me to stream Spotify via my iPad (Airplay) and audio for films via VLC on my Mac.  My Mac can then be linked to my projector by HDMI.  I have to use the 'J' and 'K' buttons to sync the audio to the picture which is a bit of a pain but I found Airfoil unreliable. 

Zyxel NSA 310 (NAS) for 'proper' listening.  Great apart from the track order issues mentioned above.

Neat Motive SX1 Speakers.

I had a lot of difficulty understanding the 'ins and outs' of streaming audio, but I've learnt a lot more from this forum than from the dealer by a long shot, especially from Nickseattle, for that I'm extremely grateful and the SU sounds great. 

Nick

Hi Nick,

Glad you have got things ironed out!

Nick,

Now that you have the AirPort Express, you should compare playing Spotify from the Mac wired to the network using AirPlay to the AE versus doing the same wirelessly from the iPad.  I presume the AE is wired to your network with its wireless feature turned off.

I think you will agree that, as good as the iPad sounds as a wireless source, the Mac sounds way better.  You can control Spotify on the Mac from the iPad using the SpotRemote app.

You might then try the Mac via optical into the SU versus the AE.  Let us know your findings.

Cheers!

Nick

If WiFi coverage from your router is adequate, WiFi from the AE is redundant and/or counter-productive.  (It is possible you disabled WiFi at the router, and prefer to let the AE provide that service, or that you actually require the coverage that two WiFi access points provide --  just ideas to consider.)

For recent Macs (and in IOS7) AirPlay is a global setting at the device level.  That is why the AirPlay icon has been removed from some apps:  it is not app-specific any more.

AirPlay is a network-streaming feature, not a wireless feature; so, turning off WiFi on the AE has no effect on AirPlay services it provides, unless doing so prevents a wireless device you want to use from getting onto your network.

Nick

Thanks for the Nils Frahm recommendation - really enjoying 'Felt'.

Noogle, 

Glad you've given 'Felt' a listen.  I love the way it's played with such delicacy, apparently he didn't want to disturb his neighbours, so he put a thick felt over the strings and close miked the piano.  The result gives a percussive rhythm to the tracks, and also his breathing is present at some points. 

I sound like an fanatic!!!

Hey Nick, 

I've found that if I hard wire the SU to the router and then connect my MBP to the AE wifi, I get far better speeds when transferring to the NAS drive. 10-12mb as opposed to 500k - 1m (if I connect to the routers wifi).

Nick  

Maybe WiFi at the router is redundant.  If they are far enough apart and use different SSIDs, maybe the do not interfere with each other.  I am not an expert here.  How does performance with the MBP wired compare?

Anyway, you are doing the right kinds of comparisons.  Good!  

Choosing your preferred source for Spotify is the next order of business.  Wireless sources tend to drop out from time to time; and then we engage in arguing about whether it is the WiFi or the Internet that is failing (then we often detour into explaining the difference to somebody who asks).  Then we wonder why our WiFi is unreliable for playing music, and what can be done.  Wiring all sources to the network is the usual solution.  Fun, all of it.

Glad you are up and running.  Keep us posted.

Nick

Hi Nick here is my setup which works well after many hours researching and playing with UPnP approaches, nStream, and all kinds of stuff with the SU. Also, you will find great information at computeraudiophile.com with many very knowledgeable members there who can help in addition to this forum.  My goal is top quality sound with simple, reliable operation.  My wife and I are like DJs with this system, paying tunes all night sometimes the SU is a fantastic, great sounding machine so we take full advantage.

First, my recommendation is to only airplay for convenience like for spotify as you are doing - sound quality is horrible - there are several reasons and the main one is that it downsamples music to 16 bit/44.1 kHz (or maybe 48 kHz) and creates a lot of jitter (results in losing resolution) and noise into your system.  You are essentially introducing a quality limit on your SU before the music information gets to the DAC.  OF course, for spotiffy, pandora, etc. it doesn't matter too much and I do the same.

for all else I use a macmini as the music server and connect it directly.  I run it headless and control it via remote desktop software (Splashtop is my preferred) via ipad.  This means it sits in my Naim Fraim rack very cleanly, no monitor needed, and just runs ready to play vs. boot up, etc.  Having it dedicated to audio also means it can be optimized for best sound, otherwise computers can be quite noisy and so you need to set up your mac in ways that turn off most of the services, take advantage of SSD, and etc.  There is a very good guide to this on the site I mentioned for free.

On the Macmini, I run iTunes as the library manager for ease of playlist creation and control and other reasons such as ease of use for my wife.  I use player software, Audirvana, which integrates with iTunes and takes over playback to correct for itunes terrible qualities in processing music.  It allows me to control the playback via iTunes, so therefore I can use iTunes remote app on iphone and ipads and the Audirvana streams the music at bit perfect resolution.  Lot more data on this at computer audiophile website.  Its a very easy to use set up and not hard to put together.

I control the inputs on the SU using Nstream from ipad, so basically, the whole think is remote controlled by ipad from anywhere in my house.

Physically, the Mac mini is connected to the SU via USB to an Audiophilleo 1 USB to S/PDIF converter into the BNC Digital 1 input.  This corrects the issues that USB ports have and reclocks thestreaming  file. In fact, Naim uses the Audiophilleo technology in their new USB capable DAC v1.  The SU does not have a USB input, so the external Audiophilleo serves this purpose.  I imagine Naim will update their SU at some point to be like the newer V1 and have this built in.  I did this vs. using the Toslink, which is another less expensive option, because Toslink is limited to 96 kHz resolution, and I like to stream up to the SUs limit of 192 to take full advantage.

So here is how this works:  I have a massive library stored on the Macmini directly.  I use Nstream to choose the inputs and volume on the SU and the iTunes "Remote" app to control playback. We can buy a song on itunes, and it automatically goes into the library for instant playback.  I can download high res from HD tracks or other sources, and import them into the itunes library, controlling this process with the remote desktop.. You can add an external CD drive and rip directly into the Mac mini using itunes (or other software if you prefer) or of course add a CD Player. Ripping allows us to create great playlists of all of our stuff! I"ve even recorded vinyl into digital high res, check out Channel D for info on this.

I do have an Airtunes connected to the SU via Toslink, and use that for convenience at times (for example streaming something from ipad) and you can definitely hear the terrible quality compared to the Macmini set up.

I hope this is helpful, I put this together for convenience and also quality - takes a bit of work to set up but is quite good and easy to use, which is why I went with SU to begin with.

Hanover, 

Thanks so much for the reply, yet again I'm touched by the welcoming nature of this forum and the wealth of knowledge people are willing to share. 

I like the idea of using a Mac mini, but for me the NAS drive solution is working out pretty well.  The Nas I currently have (Zyxel NSA 310) works really well, apart from the Twonky sorting issues.  I plan on getting a NetGear ReadyNas Duo v2 with 2x2TB Drives and installing MinimServer on the NAS Drive (the Zyxel device is not supported). 

I'm loving the SU more than I thought possible, and sometimes resort to sleeping in the lounge with it on all night! 

Many thanks again for all your input, I feel much more at ease with the technicalities of network streaming and hope someone else finds this thread useful at some point. 

All the best,

Nick  

Thank you for your post, Hanover.

In my opinion, while AirPlay is not the last word in sound quality -- neither Express nor ATV is a top source -- it is not as bad, necessarily, as you seem to suggest.  How you implement and use it matters.  While the sampling rates of Express and Apple TV are limited, as you say, downsampling is not required, I think, for any content other than hi-res.  And in my experience, using AirPlay, playing from a computer wired to my network, through an Express or ATV wired to the network does a pretty decent job via Toslink into the Naim DAC.

Lots of folks want to stream wirelessly from the Internet through an iPad and throw that wirelessly to the hifi.  This is clever, but does not show AirPlay sound quality to its best advantage.

I repeat this point often, as it took me a while to understand it, and hope it sheds light for beginners who wonder why we argue a bit about AirPlay SQ.  

I do agree that my Mac Mini into the DAC is noticibly better, though.

Cheers.

NickSeattle

Hi Nick, thank you for sharing your success with the NAS, and I can totally relate to the life changing aspects of the superuniti  and while I have not (yet) slept on the couch I've come pretty close - in a way I'm really reliving my youth playing lots of old favorites both in vinyl and high def download and its been a lot of fun, or more accurately, joy!

I recently have added Audeze LCD2 headphones, and have found them very engaging with the SU for late night listening while, and they are just breaking in so I hope will even improve a bit.

Thank you Nick Seattle, I agree with your comments, and my point is that for convenience, its great, but compared to other input options for streaming to the SU like bit perfect it doesn't compare.  Airplay will also impose volume controls and etc. that muddy sound.  There are some good jitter and noise level measurements out there to make this more scientific. At the end of the day it all doesn't matter if you enjoy what you hear in my book ; - )

I think disabling Volume control in iTunes is all that is required to eliminate that factor.  That is what I do.  Other factors may remain, however.

I rarely use AirPlay; but I have not found it to be too bad.  In my system it seems to beat stock Sonos in similar configurations.  Squeezebox Touch and Mac Mini trump both, IMHO.

Nick

Hi, I rip CDs in ALAC apple lossless for convenience but for 150 CDs AIFF would be a good choice also. I tried to hear a difference between the two in my setup using Audirvana and I could not. I use iTunes or dbPowerAmp for this on a PC then transfer the files to the Mac mini which does not have a CD drive in my set up.  In this way I have two mirrored systems so they back each other up.

Hi NIckSeattle, yes I believe to your point you can disable volume control and one way is by having it at "100%" on the device that is playing through airtunes. 

There are two pieces, airplay itself (it has its own software processing that limit the resolution to 16 bit/44.1 kHz so mucks with higher resolution files) and then the airport express as the receiver, which has its own hardware (DAC, wireless receiver and repeater, USB port) and software for management.

Here is a good article on the different airport express generations with measurements:

http://www.computeraudiophile....ple-airport-express/

It would be great if Naim would include AirPlay support in the Super Uniti and other equipment like B&W does (I have the A7 for example and it sounds very good for what it is) to bypass having to have the airport express or Apple TV to 'receive' the stream.  There was some talk they would include this with a firmware update.  I sure would like to get rid of my airport express in the setup to simplify and reduce the potential for power noise etc.  

here's another good one on airport express (referenced in the other article):

http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/505apple

Hannover

Thanks for describing your own setup and for your following 2 posts - all interesting stuff

Thanks again, Hanover.  

Interesting about the differences between generations of AE, and especially about the impact of the analog line ond the digital-out.  I use a first generation, late-revision B/G AE.

It leads me to wonder what are current better/best AirPlay devices for use into e.g. Naim DAC or SU -- strictly for sound quality, allowing for feature redundancy.  The Denon DNP720AE comes to mind; I have seen it at $299 recently.  Interesting the reference Marantz streamer does not seem to include AirPlay, while their AVR's do.

Have you read anything on this?  I will poke around a bit myself.

Again, I am satisfied with AirPlay the way I use it now, which is rarely, because  SBT or Mac Mini into the DAC are my preferred sources anyway.  But optimization is a pass-time I enjoy.

Best,

Nick

Correction:  I now see the Marantz NA-11S1 DOES have AirPlay on board.  At >$3K, I wonder if it does AirPlay into a DAC any better than the Denon, understanding that AirPlay supremacy probably isn't the primary aim of either.

Nick

I cant seem to find an answer or work out why, but today for example, I downloaded an EP in flac from bandcamp and copied it over to my NAS Drive, the EP copied over fine and it shows in n-stream using minimserver.  If I hold down 'press' the album (in n-stream) it says 'getting tracks' and will proceed to play the album. However, if I enter the album (so I can see each track) and try to select an individual track and press play, the SU reads 'Cannot Play'... Weird. 

Any ideas? Happened again just now,.