Can't edit metadata

The easy part is the hard drives -- they got bigger.  The part I can't answer regards some internals - I just don't know which parts.  But when my uServe was upgraded to the version that first supported the Downloads folder by Chris West at AVOptions, he said it got the larger (2tb) hard drive and some other new bits that I can't name specifically because I just don't know for sure.  

Some would say that whilst the FLAC standard (in theory) remains independent, Apple Lossless is potentially at the mercy of commercial decisions made by Apple Corp and therefore subject to change?  I choose uncompressed FLAC.

Updated my Uniti Serve and NDS to the most current firmware.  Large AIFF files play fine now.  

Glad you solved the problem Chris.

Just to update my story so far: I gave up with Naim's MusicServer line and returned my device. Even despite a loss. The first time ever with a Naim product in +20 years, I am seriously disappointed! Just didn't want to see that chic but troubled "Windows XP embedded" box anymore. That may be O.K. for an ATM, but not for home electronics. Unfortunately I found that out too late... But it would have remained an alien in my Mac/iOS (and Linux for embedded boxes) environment for ever.

To me it's like a Bentley clone: It looks like one, sounds like one, and has it's high-end price tag. But when you actually begin to use/drive it  on a daily base, you will find out that acceleration, brakes and road holding come from an old, rusty VW beatle. :-(

These devices feels like a janus head to me: Great audio hardware, ruined by flawed software decisions. Looks like a bunch of enterprise IT blokes, that have never seen something else than a homogeneous Microsoft office environment for their whole lives, tried to build a completely different consumer electronic device for private home use, and sadly failed... MS is something for the mass, not for the class. I don't hope, that's Naims new direction? Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.

To cheer me up after that frustration, I went for the great NDS & 555PS combination (replacing CDS3 & XPS). Now I can build up a useful and less restricted ripping-streaming frontend with parts of my own choice. :-)

You should really love the NDS/555PS, Adrian.  I continue to be really glad I spent the money on them.

I get good results from my 2tb UnitiServe (in my home which is all OS X and iOS and Linux), but definitely there are other options - each of which has its plusses and minuses perhaps.  The good news is that we audio consumers DO have options, and the NDS will be relatively happy being fed by many of them.

What server solution are you using?

All the best,

Bart

Thank you for your kind words Bart. I already like the NDS and the sound quality will increase and open up as it breaks in over the next weeks. The RC5 integration with the analogue preamp is an unexpected but nice feature too.

The NDS is like the versatile digital high-end music interface to my system that was missing before.

At the moment I just use the computer equipment and data, that was already lying around at my place.

An iMac with XLD for CD-ripping and converting. In this case = re-wrapping the LPCM uncompressed 16bit/44.1MHz music data from the former Naim server from WAV to AIFF (with standard ID3 tags). I use Yate to tag the AIFF files.

A Synology NAS with the included software packages. I took over the Naim structure inside the music folder with HQ, MQ, LQ sub-folders, because that seems to make sense for me. A copy of my iTunes library (AAC 256kbit/s) properly tagged is in LQ. The converted CD-rips are in MQ, but have to be edited first. XLD already integrated the folder.jpg covers inside the files. But all the remaining metadata (artist, genre, ect.) has to be added with Yate as next step.

The Naim CD-ripped file names where preceded with 2 digit track number and then a "space hyphen space" separator to the track name. The NDS added itself track numbers, which resulted in doubles in the display like: 1 - 01 - track name. So I had to rename all CD-rips with a batch renamer tool to replace the " - " separator with just one " ". That one is fixed and looks good now. But still quite some tag work to do...

At the moment it's basically iRadio and UPnP. I am still thinking about a direct digital connected music ripper/server for later.

Weiss has the MAN301, which is Linux based, and could rip to AIFF directly. But I am in big doubt to try another "closed" audio-manufacturer system again, where I depend to the feature set, that they think is important (or not). I am more tempted towards building an audiophile Mac mini based server at the moment.

I hope, that the OS X version of DBpoweramp is coming soon... JRiver seems to be already here. Time will tell...

It sounds like you've got a fine system for your music, Adrian.  Personally I'd chose to stick with UPnP, as it allows you to locate the server hardware out of eye and ear shot of the hi fi. 

I have been using Tag for metadata edits, and THANK YOU for the Yate reference.  I had not heard of it and will try it!  Tag is very basic - maybe too basic. 

And yes, if the album art is embedded in the flac files, n-Stream seems fine with it right?  We talk a lot about the folder.jpg file in the folder with the music files, but Naim players ARE compatible with art embedded within flac files too.  This does not get much attention here.

I have heard at a demo (with naim-server) that the direct digital connection sounded considerably better than the UPnP connection... that's why.

I'd like to keep the server away from the living room too. But SSDs are getting bigger and less expensive. (Nearly) noiseless servers are not a dream anymore. QNAP already has a fanless NAS:

http://www.qnap.com/en/index.php?sn=822&c=351&sc=514&t=523&n=20179

I hope, that Synology will make something like that soon?

But in between my IT stuff in the office and the living room with the AV stuff (and the internet connection) is a hallway with ceramic tiles. No wooden strips to the sides above the floor, where you could hide an ethernet cable. So the connection between those two rooms goes over WLAN. Each rooms for itself is cabled.

Yate seems to be the most complete audio tagger for OS X at the moment. It can be linked to iTunes too. So you can tag your LQ and MQ/HQ music in one go. But I haven't tried that yet... I'm sure it has much more features, than what I will be able to use. ;-)

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/44972/yate

Metadatics is another one, probably slightly smaller and cheaper. Tag and a quite a lot (free) others did not support AIFF, so I began to evaluate a few different ones.

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/46463/metadatics

I still don't understand, why Naim chose WAV plus a complicated proprietary database for their servers, when you can have "uncompressed" LPCM audio with metadata included in standard ID3 tags integrated with AIFF. (Or FLAC / ALAC if you want  a "lossless" compressed format.) I felt patronized by that (and other) limitations.

I just want to do the tagging job once. Afterwards it must be possible, to transfer your music colletion with any computer Mac/Linux/Win/NAS whatever, without having to use special naim-server functions and without loosing the metadata.

Daunt I do not think it's anything to do with copyright, or anything that the uServe technically did or did not do.  If you added files to the Downloads folder on your uServe's hdd, and n-Stream or n-Serve doesn't see them, you probably just need to re-index (scan).  Naim do not know if you paid for those files or not.

I think it has to do with the format that the uServe uses in its Store folders.  If you've copied a folder from a Store (which it sounds like you did, as you said it was previously ripped by a uServe), I am not so sure you can just drop that into the Downloads folder.  The metadata protocols are different.  You need to tag the files first.

It's the 'moving from Store to Share' that went off the rails.  The protocols for the Store and for Shares (and Downloads is just another Share) are different.  And we cannot write files/folders to the Store; Naim prevent that, as they would not index properly.  Again, different protocols.

That's my point!

- Because naim let's you only tag the internal naim-ripped database, and not the self-ripped or dowloaded "download" share.

- Because the naim-servers have problems ripping some CDs. (Probably a copy-protection problem, because they aimed them at Win? Never had a rip problem on Mac.)

- Problems with special characters (forbidden in Win, but O.K. in Mac or Unix).

- Only SMB shares for Win. No AFP shares for Mac or NFS shares for Unix, like any decent NAS.

- ect.

So you will need a computer, evaluate and buy rip and tag software and learn how to use them anyway. Just to work around the shortcomings of the naim-server...

But when you have to do all that, what's the point of having a naim-server in the first place? He was supposed to solve and automate those problems for me!

Hi Adrian,

I am not knowledgable with the stuff you discuss above, partly because I am not interested in it. So I can't help you there and it seems there are some limitations yes. But you ask the question "....what's the point of having a naim-server in the first place?" Well, from my point of view, it was the perfect product for someone who had no digital based audio library to speak of, so I took the view that I was starting from a blank canvas. And as the ripping, tagging, downloading third part software, fiddling with optimisation knobs, configuring nases, and very specifically in my case, not running a pc to hear my music, etc, etc, did not interest me, I wanted something that was turnkey. Additionally, the debate on whether WAV is better than FLAC left me cold mainly because nobody on the a forum could agree, so I am assuming that they are as good as each other. This all adds up to the simple fact that the U-Serve takes all the unnecessary faffing out of the equation of setting up and managing a digital based audio library. Add 5 year warranty, Naim tech support and the knowledge that you have a system that has been optimised for the best audio quality via UPnP/ethernet with their range of streamers.

So for someone who is starting from the beginning, as I was, the U-Serve provides the perfect solution also bearing in mind that one can update all the other boxes around it, from the Qute to the NDS knowing that the U-Serve will be optimised for all of them, just as Naim intended it to do, and marketed for, which many people seem to forget. For what should be considered a very important component of their HiFi system, perhaps even the most important, hense the £2,000 price tag.

For someone who already has a healthy digital audio library, on a non naim system like yourself, there are some hiccups and depending on how deep one has ventured down that rabbit hole, then perhaps it's better not to migrate to a proprietary Naim digital audio library system, I don't really know.

As I said, owning the U-Serve has kept me gloriously uninterested in the things that you speak of. Perhaps one day that will come back to bite me in the arse. But at the moment, I have a smooth running digital audio library that optimised itself within some 30 seconds + 7 minutes it took to rip the first cd.

I am sorry Adrian but you did ask

Jason.

p.s. Hopefully someone will come along to help you out.

I am sorry Adrian but you did ask

 

Jason.

Hi Jason.

Don't be - I did  my "mistake".

So I learned, that if you are "not knowledgable with the stuff", can "start from a blank canvas" and didn't have a "digital based audio library" before, the Naim music-servers can be the right tool for you.

Me on the other hand am "preloaded" with IT knowledge, could not start from a blank canvas, and did ripping, tagging, syncing, listening since 2001, as the first iPod came out. But exclusively inside the Apple world with Mac/iTunes/iDevice and lossy compressed music. Probably that spoiled me...

I expected, that the Naim music-servers work the same seamlessly together, but with uncompressed music, better sound quality and a better pro-database for the metadata.

I wanted to keep the IT and the AV world separated, that's why I invested in a NS03 (basically a HDX with a second HDD for backup). But besides the sound quality, I was disappointed and had to change my concept. This tool was too restricted and unflexible for me.

In this case, I obviously had too high expectations in Naim (for once). As I explained further up in the thread, it didn't work out for me... As always - your milage may vary.

So how do you handle a non naim-server rippable CD or a hi-res download without external computer, additional software and knowledge? How do you backup your music library?

How do I handle non-naim server rippable cds? All my 1400 CDs ripped ok. If one didn't I would have had to use my notebook computer and learn about things like dBpoweramp I suppose.

High res downloads - just download to the notebook computer then attach it to the home network and copy and paste into the downloads folder. No additional software or knowledge required.

I back up by buying a seagate hard disk from Argos, attaching it to the network then telling the U/S to backup to it.

I might be doing it wrong of course.

I think Naim went down the route they did because they found out that WAV files sound better, and so had to invent their own method of tagging to make it simple for people like me with no computer audio experience.

I had one CD out of 550 that didnt rip on my Unitiserve.

I just ripped it via my PC / DB Poweramp and it now resides on my NAS

served to my streamer by the Unitiserve

(I have the first version of the US which is not able to store downloads. Different now with the latest generation though).

For this isolated case, I didnt find it to be an issue.

Back ups are scheduled automatically by the Unitiserve to my NAS, once a week.

Dead easy to set up.

That's exactly what I would have expected!

But after ripping only 180 CDs (of ~1000), I already had 8 non-rippable CDs with the NS03. When we tested that with the dealers Unity-Serve, all those "bad" CDs where suddenly ripped without problems...

Now they where telling me stories, that up to 10% non-rippable CDs are "normal" because the tray-drives of NS + HDX lines are better but more critical than the slot-in drives of the Unity line!?!?

Many mails, phones and weeks later, they finally tried to replace the optical drive. But Naim sent the wrong model...

I felt like they never took my problems seriously. It was more like they throw an ad-leaflet in my face: It's the best product on the market, we sold xyz numbers and no one has a problem but you!
So it must be my fault or what?

- When I got a "monday-morning" model, why didn't they offer to replace it with a new one immediately?
- When I got requirements, that the device could not fulfill, why didn't they offer me a full refund in the first place?

After months of complaining and still no solution in sight, I had to stop ruining my nerves, and give it back at a loss... just to put an end to it.

Hi Adrian,

Firstly, I feel for your issues and you are not the only one who has had problems with the U-Serve. Regarding what I wrote above, I am certainly not saying the U-Serve is perfect because it isn't as many have found out.

With regard to your questions, I will refer you to Dozey's answers. 

I hope ope you get your issues sorted.

Jason.

I have a Unitiserve 2T and have had problems ripping some cd's. I have a lot of classical music boxes and especially the ones from EMI won't rip properly. Out of 1200 cd's about 15 have failed. I brought those failures to my dealers US and they failed there as well. Naim did take the problem seriously, but since problem followed the cd's I decided to let it go.

In total US is a great machine to me, makes me connect to the music with no issues at all. The missing cd's can be ripped by my Mac and put into my NAS, for replay, routed by this excellent server

You want a computer system without a computer? If you can find a manufacturer that has such a system it would be interesting to know, I am sure a lot of non computer people would love that system!

Claus