Do you play a musical instrument?

Well not in my case.

I play the comb and paper (badly) and the triangle if pushed. I have no knowledge of musical theory at even the basic level. I could not tell you the difference between a minim, a quaver and a cheese and onion wotsit.

Music is for me like electricity; I'm happy to appreciate it and love what it does for me but have no great desire to understand how it works. Live music is something I rarely sample, and certainly don't always enjoy. Rather be in my own space with recorded music 99 times out of a 100.

Bruce

I can hum the whole of 'Transformer'.

G

Play piano (mainly jazz but all sorts generally) just about acceptably and sing in choirs to a reasonably decent standard. Enjoy music theory as well, which makes me a bit peculiar in muso circles.

Especially in a group setting, having to listen carefully to others whilst performing sharpens your ears rather. I think this improves my ability to listen to hifi (or makes me even more obsessive over details, depending on your point of view). Most decent musos I know can easily spot a good bit of hifi kit doing its thing - whether they care or not is a different matter. Most jobbing musicians are too impoverished to spend Naim levels of money on their home kit, even if they want to. Those that can often do.

Mark

Yes Char Wallah, the over-commercialism of pop music in particular has practically killed quality music making in that field. I share your angst.

But you don't have to be a professional, earning your way through music, to play an instrument. My playing is purely for fun. I took up the drums to help my son learn, as it was his instrument of choice.  

However, like Mark, I find that music-making helps me to tune into recorded music: the rhythms, the tones, the emotion, in a way I didn't before. For example, I am much more sensitive to the SQ of drums and cymbals than I was before and can hear the precise set up of the kit, including the tuning of the heads.

When I first got into Hifi (about 1981) I could play piano, the recorder and sing, but I was immersed in and mesmerised by the sounds of my next door neighbour's heavy rock group. I wanted a system that could reproduce the sheer energy, and noise, clearly and powerfully. The quest began there, in my early teens.

Drums and guitar here.

Interesting post. My school experince of education was indeed 'forced singing' and that was about it. An utterly joyless experince. I left those lessons with the strong belief that I could not and would not be ever able to make music.

They may have been right, but I feel about this the same as I do about art at school. I love art and have developed a rich appreciation of and pleasure in art as well as music. What a pity it too so long to appear. If my music/art classes had helped me appreciate creative works rather than just forcing me to attempt to make some it would have been so different. I don't recall ever once seeing a great picture or sculpture either in a gallery or even on the printed page and being given a chance to actually look and think about it. I hope modern arts teaching had a more enlightened view.

My last school art report. 'This is Bruce's last ever term of art. I am not sure who is more grateful'

Bruce

I don't own any Naim gear, but I do play piano and compose music and have recorded for the Naim label.

Nice one Fred, but do you hanker after Naim gear, or, indeed, another good Hifi system, or is such ownership superfluous to your needs?

Char Wallah, I know what you mean and your football analogy is a good one for mainstream pop. Every profession has its overpaid 'leading lights', but I don't see musicians in the main as being well paid. The ones I know all have to supplement their income with other activities.

In one way, HiFi ownership does allow us to be musically creative: we get the chance to explore new music, whether it be a new track/album, or revisiting a favourite performance in greater depth due to an upgraded piece of kit. And, of course, such experiences help us to refine our musical sensibilities and our abilities to become more discerning lovers of music.

I like Bruce's post. In essence, we can appreciate created art without necessarily having to create art ourselves. We don't have to be actors to enjoy a good film or play. And on the education front one might hope that a good English teacher might allow his/her class to read a classic for their own enjoyment, just as we crave time to absorb the messages from other works of art. But, does involvement in artistic creativity enhance the experience? Or is  one just an extension of the other?

My father in law was a music addict, modest HiFi buff and had a self-taught grounding in music theory. He could deconstruct a classical piece in a way I can only dream of: he understood the workings of the notes, the interplay between the musicians. Yet, we could both enjoy the same piece of music. I just felt he had a deeper and more profound experience.

I think our appreciation of an art form we understand or indeed we have tried ourselves is different, although not necessarily richer.

I will appreciate the skill of the performer more, and perhaps even reflect on how I might have done it myself but I don't think it is required to get to the essence of the piece-which for me is almost always an emotional response not a technical one. That response is open to anyone I think.

Bruce

Some time ago I played drums and trumpet, unfortunately my circumstances changed and I am not playing anymore...

I have a couple of guitars which I play to amuse myself. I've never had lessons or played within a group and am an "advanced beginner", if anything. It does make me appreciate how much effort and skill that goes into music of any kind. For instance, try as I might, I still can't get the rhythm guitar part in "All My Loving". A seemingly simple song with devilishly difficult triplets all the way through.

Used to play rhythm guitar then bass a band. Just listen to music now. Can't squabble with the hifi and it never shows up late for rehearsal!

Ah, that viola player who often played naked....

Jason.

Dozey, I wonder if the lo-fi thing is simply that feeling that nothing compares to the original? and yet my students, when initiated into Hifi (via a Rega/Linn system) really appreciate the SQ, especially when we are playing LPs of classic performances which 'sound so real'.

Thanks Loki for starting this nice thread and a topic that I hold close to my heart.  Also, nice thought provoking responses from Char Wallah and Ebor.  I have so many ideas floating around in my mind I just don't know where to start so I'll start with this.

I certainly do not want to generalize but I do not think the problem lies mainly with the "experts and professionals" while obviously one can easily find examples.  I don't mean this in a bad way but I think our current culture and the hoi polloi, in general, is just generally lost.  Sadly, the days long ago where most homes had instruments and families/friends played together is over. 

Note, that since my interests lie mainly with Classical music, my comments will mostly apply to this genre.  First, the recording industry has spoiled everything with perfectionism.  It is to the point that people judge solely on note perfection, not musicality, since note perfection is really the starting point for recordings/performers and the easiest thing to place judgement against.  I think, like in the past, if more (or most) people played and consequently, had a higher level of understanding then we wouldn't be so focused on perfection.  For those who can do better (professionals) there should always be a respect afforded to them.  Not that perfection is bad or not the goal but when you play you will probably be more empathetic to others as you will understand what it takes to play an instrument yourself.

Compound this with todays culture (ie. those who walk around with some device in their hands, head down, thumbs bobbing around, completely oblivious to the world around them).  In this world, we have so called experts at everything (yes, an amoeba can probably google too) but masters of nothing.  No one seems to have an attention span longer than 10 seconds. 

To learn an instrument you need discipline and you need a long term attention span and the ability to focus for long periods of time.  You need to be able to be alone for long periods of time.  You also need resilience as it is hard (and humbling) to keep at something where results may take years or decades or maybe never in lifetime.  Most people I know who played something as a child do not play today for these very reasons.  It is hard and more importantly there is the insensitive, scathing comments by many loud mouthed snooks that are the last nails in this coffin.

This is why currently I only play for myself, my son, or other music students in recitals or small home concerts with interested/like minded friends only etc. who themselves have an interest in music.  Most people aren't interested in sitting through something that is far from perfect and they have no interest in music in the first place.  What I have also noticed over the years is that many people who have zero musical knowledge or skill are the first to notice a mistake or a wrong note played or make a judgement.  Yet, when I play with my cellist friend, even if it sounds terrible and we struggle through there is a special connection with the music from just creating something with your own hands and heart that is unmatched for me in any other activity.  I've had many wonderful memories of long rehearsals where magic is in the air.  You come to a special part and end and we are both speechless and maybe even have to fight back a tear or two.

OK, I've gotten ahead of my self a little.  Yes, I play the piano and from all accounts started playing the piano when I was around three years old.  I tagged along with my older sister to her piano lessons and just took an interest in it at least for my entire earliest memories to the present day.  I bought my first records as a seven year old.  My family is not especially musical at all.  My father being less so than zero and with the exception of my mother and sister who could be very musical but for whatever reason they have not or would not ever pursue it.  That leaves me as the odd ball or black sheep in this regard.  You could say I make up for all their disinterest combined and then some.  No one ever led me and I just naturally pursued this interest on my own.  Yet being in the minority has led to the necessity to hide my interest with them and with most acquaintances.  It is certainly nothing to talk about with them as this goes no where.

My second interest is in the cello but with a chronic shortage of time in my life if I have any energy at all it first goes to the piano.  One day I hope that my health lasts into retirement and then I plan to make up for all a wasted life of trying to earn a living to pay for an instrument and this hobby of mine and take lessons again and see where it takes me.  I was nearly there about ten years ago and then life or should I say, someone, put an end to my dream and is now living it herself for me.

As for hi-fi, this came rather late in my life.  Well, I was always interested in recordings and in actually playing the piano.  What I mean is that for the first half of my life I had to make due with lo-fi.  The recordings and the playing are really a symbiotic relationship.  For me, I believe my level of playing increased as I got better gear but more importantly as I was able to get a better instrument. Listening has always been driven by my interest in what I wanted to play.  If I had to give up one of these things though it would be the recordings.  As good as this aspect is, it just simply does not provide me with the pleasure I receive from the tactile and aural experience of being in charge of the outcome and the act of creating.  It is a different world.   It's not fireworks everyday and sometimes maybe the highest peak may come only a few times a year but as I said previously, once you experience this it is like a perfect drug.  Nothing is more pleasing or satisfying.  This is why I pursue this hobby of playing an instrument and anyone that has the slightest interest in this as well I wholeheartedly encourage anyone to pursue this skill passionately.

Doug

Oh, I hanker ... believe me, I hanker.

It truly blows my mind to hear the albums I've made for Naim, which were recorded by Ken Christianson, played back on his own personal system in his audio bunker ... if I close my eyes I'd swear I could reach out and physically touch the instruments. So, yes, the best gear possible makes a huge difference. On the other hand, if I have no other option, I can listen to a funky cassette and if the music is right it can still make me weep.

Of course, I get tremendous pleasure and satisfaction from composing, performing, and recording music, but more than anything I'm grateful to be able to hear music ... not only hear it, but receive its message, understand it in every possible way, derive as much pleasure from its emotional essence.

I often think that in some hypothetical bizzaro fascist world in which I'd be forced to choose between playing music or listening to music for the rest of my life, I'd have to choose listening. On great gear.

Understandable Fred. I am no musician but I have to think that perpetually playing music could become a bit like hearing to yourself talk, while listening to others might be more stimulating, like conversation.

'I play the comb and paper (badly) and the triangle if pushed ......'

I was in a BBC Friday Night is Music Night recording a few years ago and during rehearsals I heard one of the orchestras percussionist played a simple tune on a triangle! I was sat just behind him playing in the Morris Motors works band under the great Harry Mortimer.

I am from the brass band world and have played at the highest levels dipping occasionally into the orchestral and even the pop world and to date I know of only one other who is as involved as myself in hifi though most of my associates will have music 'systems' of sorts I am sure. Most musicians are like tv actors, too busy either playing/acting to listen/watch tv. 

Being a musician is totally irrelevant to ones enjoyment in quality sounds either performed live or electronically reproduced, you need no knowledge at all to enjoy music. As to those who are quick to criticise that may well be the case if they are not players themselves they obviously have no idea what a musician has put in to enable him to ply his trade! They probably drive cars badly as well and are the same people who are the wonderful drivers we all encounter everyday and who quick criticise our so called poor driving skills. I know many stunningly fine brass players who would never criticise but I do know many from the more amateur who are the first to pour scorn! 

Doug, thank you for your erudite contribution. A thought-provoking response. I particularly liked the bit about perfectionism. In the two wings of the entertainment world I've worked in (Theatre and classical/jazz music) I've always been of the opinion that a 'bum note' may be obvious to the player but not so to the audience, especially if suitably played through. When directing Hamlet, my lead man gave me a few sleepless nights as he struggled with some of the bard's finest lines. When it came to it, each night was different. He and I noticed, but we had nothing but praise for the dynamic and original interpretation he brought to the play. and in jazz, of course, some of the bum notes lead to the very best  improvised pieces. It reminds me of the scenes in Master and Commander where Russell Crowe and his doctor/companion play a Bach cello suite, somewhat rustily (all the salt air!) and yet enjoy re-creating the notes on the score for their own amusement.

Char Wallah, Yep, loathe the 'industry'. The clue is in that dread word. Luddite I am, bring back the skilled cottage workers.

There is a way to help, of course. a) attend as many and varied live gigs as you can afford. b) sign up to pledgemusic. I am a great fan of Polly Paulusma and was one of a small group of fans who helped bring her last (brilliant) album, Leaves from the family tree,  to fruition on vinyl in August 2013, through pledging a certain amount to the project. I now own a brilliant virgin vinyl 180g signed pressing, with my name in the credits, and feel I have directly supported a musician in her career, ensuring that she continues to make and record music that I adore. Not bad for £25. Check it out.

Just been on pledgemusic. I think it's a great idea and have just pledged on a 12" vinyl for a band called Broken Records. Thanks 

Rock on Tan y Draig!

I just look at the magnificent collection of world class musicians in the distance: rather like ignoring a pylon in an otherwise beautiful  natural landscape. I'm  not saying that pylons don't have their own beauty, it's just I prefer the view without them. Likewise master B.

De gustibus non est disputandum.