NDS upgrading 2014

You are using the DAC-V1 as preamp too. When you exchange that for a streamer, you are missing a preamp!

How do you want to connect the streamer to the poweramp, how do you want to change volume...? Don't underestimate the value of the preamp. It's the soul of a good system!

I agree with Adrian - the preamp - certainly in a Naim system, seems to make a significant contribution to the overall sound and response of the system.

So I would get a preamp first and chose what works best for you - they mostly all have their sweet spots. Once you are happy - then I would try the different DACs.

Simon

Thanks Adrian,

Keeping the DAC-V1 as the pre-amp then perhaps just upgrade the NAP100 for now for that extra push?

Hearing that the nDAC/555PS gives a more analogue response than the NDS more clinical approach, plus the pre-amp requirement if ditching the V1, it does sound as though the US is the one item I can keep and upgrade from there?

Cheers

Dan43

Dan I asked the same in your other thread.  I think you need a preamp!

The "problem" if there is one is that the Dac V1 is really optimized to be used as a usb dac, hardwired with a usb cable to a computer.  The uServe/NDS combo lives in the world if UPnP streaming.  These are two different solutions to 'streaming music,' and I think that you need to pick one.

I've yet to see an NDS on Audiogon.  Yes, with an NDS you NEED a power supply; you can find gently used XPS's around, but not many at all 555 DR'ed power supplies used or traded in.  These are Naim's top of the line, so much fewer on the used market. 

Dan - please audition the NDS/555 and NDAC/555 with your preamp - I might find the NDS more clinical - but many don't so please make your own mind up.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Agreed, thankyou.

My local dealer is really very helpful here so I will try both options. My preferred taste in music is heavier rock/metal/Floyd/Doors etc so I love a really tight and solid bass response.

The pre-amp I didn't quarter, so thanks for that also.

Thanks Bart,

Thats a great point on the V1, it sounds great the V1/NAP100 but I am moving on as I wish to evolve into the NDS and more thorough sound staging, but keep the US which I love for its ease of use and n-serve software support/iPad.

Cheers

Dan43

Remember that you can use the NDS with the XP5xs, and by all accounts it sounds rather good. Have a careful think about where you want to get to and how you want to access your files. Something like an NDS and SN2 may be all you need. I'd recommend that you get an upgrade power supply for the Serve - see my profile.

And the XPS, (my dealer offered me XPS-DR upgraded version last time we discussed) yes the upgraded PSU for the Uniti this clearly works for you.

As you have suggested perhaps the NDS/SN2 is what I need for a tidy upgrade.

There is a lot to be said for simplicity. The other thing to bear in mind is that the bigger systems will be better and in the Hifi shop you can hear the differences and think 'I want that'. But once you get it home, and it's all you hear, so long as it matches the room and is well installed, and is 'good enough' you will get hours of pleasure. 

My little system meets all those requirements, and listening now to Nick Cave live from KCRW it sounds wonderful. I've owned bigger systems in the past (552, 300 etc) but the SuperUniti does everything I want. It may not be enough for you, but the trick is to know what good enough means. Streaming from the Serve works so well via nStream, but make sure that is how you want to use it, rather than as a direct connection into a DAC.

I enjoy the n-serve software/app, and the UnitiServe works well for me, you see the NAC N 172xs also.

I need to test and take a breather, lots of great options, which could be solved by just adding the Supernait2 and new speakers.

Luckily have done the shop test and the home demo (of an NDS) but trying to make sure I make the right moves for my tastes and costs.

thanks

Dan43

Dan, I started with the UnitiServe and a direct connection from it into the Naim Dac/XPS2 combo via the SPDIF output of the Serve.

I did a big change from there all at once -- sold off the Dac and XPS2 in favor of an NDS and 555PS.  So all at once I went from direct connection to UPnP streaming, and to the NDS, and an upgraded power supply.  My wife and I noticed a huge improvement, but it's hard for me to know exactly which new pieces contributed what. 

If you do chose the Naim Dac, you can always control playback from the uServe via the nServe app on your iPhone and/or a Mac.

Bart I feel I am in the same position and want to just go for the big upgrade.

Dan43

FWIW If you are looking for an upgrade, good as the PMC DB1s may be, I think your DAC-V1/NAP100 deserve a better pair of speakers. PMC Twenty series or Neat perhaps.

Also, I don't believe the DAC-V1 has been "optimized" for USB input. The S/PDIF inputs work just fine as well. IMHO.

And an XPS also, my local dealer offered me a DR upgraded XPS for £2500 at the time but I couldn't quite go all in with the NDS.

I see you have the non-Naim PSU for the US, worth a shout then? I did consider his DAC once also.

I have my storage , all is firing well, just as you say thinking about that efficient upgrade path, which could be just the NDS/PSU and SN2.

Another consideration is the time.  How long are you willing to wait and see the next Naim digital products. Many of us hope for the reference dac an NdacS  either something that is better than the current ndac, maybe without internal su, maybe   a v6 or v10, a reference class dac with a preamp. Only the people at Naim knows if this is even under consideration, but with a Userve you have more options, both using the upnp functionality or as you do now use digital out.

Claus

Claus, I like your optimism.. but I do wonder whether there will be DAC2.. I hope so. even if it means only off boarding the digital supply and adding mechanical suspension.. Other than that the NDAC is pretty much perfect (with a 555PS) for me .. although being an ex chorister I am rather partial to choral music in large cathedrals, and only here do I feel the the nod goes to the NDS... so if this ability could be incorporated into the DAC2 I'd be in heaven.

Simon

Totally disagree, IMO NDS in MUCH more analogue than nDAC, so please, hear it ourself & do not just trust on all "demo" comments here. Pre first is the answer.

I highly recommend demoing the DAC/555 combo before making a decision. An NDS/US sounds like overkill to me if what you're going after is improved sound quality. A lot of the features of the NDS are redundant if you have a UnitiServe in your system already. The US/DAC/555PS DR is a stunning digital combination that has produced some of the finest sound I've heard among all sources and that includes the NDS.

I agree in part, and disagree in part.

The agreement -- the Dac/555 combination sounds different than the NDS/555 combination, and thus if possible one might want to hear both. 

The disagreement -- the UnitiServe and the NDS have zero important functions in common.  (I'm ignoring that the both can access internet radio; so can my iPhone.)  And they are designed to work in tandem.  They are Naim's streaming solution; a server, and a player.  They work wonderfully together.

I prefer the DAC sound and also like the fact it remains a discrete component.

I greatly preferred the NDS/555PS to DAC/555PS. Both are excellent. To me the DAC sounded like a high quality digital source, the NDS just sounded like music. Using one with a US, they will just click together and work seamlessly. 

I would also council against accepting that the DAC/555 sounds more analogue than the NDS/555 unless "analogue" means "worse" or "not as good as" in this context? Clearly, it may be true in some systems or rooms or for some people's ears, but it shouldn't be accepted as received wisdom.

The best advise is to do a home demo before any big decisions are made.

Keith

Having used the ndac:555PS fed by an HDX and now using the HDX:555PS as a source:

To my ears the ndac:555PS sounds a touch clinical by comparison to the HDX:555PS which is a very fine source indeed.

I suspect most with an HDX go for the ndac first as an 'upgrade' and then add the 555PS (to the ndac) before trying it on the HDX minus ndac.  This latter configuration gives the bigger improvement over the bare HDX in my experience.

I'm tempted to move sideways to an NDX:555PS source if n-stream & n-serve cannot be unified though as the lack of volume control bugs me!

Awaiting reference dac.

G

It is in the ears of the beholder. I didn't find the NDX to be different from HDX, both with XPS2. 

The HDX has been a tremendously versatile component for me down the last few years/changes/upgrades and it can still play CDs if I need to.