HDX - The Right Choice?

AFAIK the new multi-room capability will not stream hi-res into the qutes

The retagging issue is easily solved by letting the HDX convert your existing rips to flac, and rip new cd's to flac.  When it does that, the flac files are tagged with artist, album, track name, track number, genre, date.  And the album art is embedded into the files (in addition to the file called folder.jpg being retained in the directory).

That is one suggesting for solving the tagging problem if you want to make your Naim server rips compatible with other servers.

I had been threatening to do this with my uServe Store, and now have done it.  (I retained my last backup of the .wav Store, just in case I want to go back to it for some reason.  But I transcode everything to wav as it's served to my Qute and NDS, and I cannot hear a difference now that only flac files are on my server.  Maybe others would hear a difference; I don't.)

I suggest considering running Line-level wire from AV Out of the main system into a distribution-pre, then out to satellite locations.  A Nait or Uniti in each location can play along with the whole house, or do its own thing.  Flexible, and easy to use.  Sounds great!  It is what I do; though my current satellites are B&O and Tivoli.

Nick

Remember that the HDX now also acts as a upnp server. The only problem as far as I know is the synchronized sound  in different room. This should be a feature of the netstreams solution, but not be possible with using the hdx as a upnp server, while using the local anlogue or digital out into the main system.

I am almost sure that the Naim upnp server can stream 24 bit files.

When the hdx rips to flac with 1.7 firmware, the flac files get the information in the files, so they can be used by other streamers, but the XML files are still there if you want to convert back to wav later.

The biggerst issue is probably to select all ripped albums and have the hdx convert them, unless I have missed an obvious way to do this.

Claus

Claus hi.  The really obvious way to convert all previously ripped wav's to flac is -- well there are two options.  One, select all with n Serve for OS X and convert, or two, using the web interface change the default rip format to flac, which will cause all previous rips to be converted to flac. 

When I bought my HDX I had also the NaimNet idea in mind in order to develop a Multiroom system in my house. By coincidence I realized that my TV in the living room – which I use also to listen to radio stations - can act as a UPNP client and recognized the HDX as UPNP server without any problems. From there I can access my full music collection which consists of the HDX rips (wav) and one share for 24bit music (all flac). I can access all features from the HDX incl. Album Cover, Playlists, Top 20 Played, Last Ripped or Last Played. It also streams 24/192 files without any issues.

So no NaimNet necessary anymore and the Uniti product range seem to cover now most of what is desired and when I understand the specs correctly n-stream can distinguish between several Naim Streaming Clients such as the Qute for example.

All in all I am very happy with my HDX-decision and due to the UPNP server functionality I am not bothered with file formats at all.

Hence I assume that the HDX as Server and several Naim streaming clients controlled by n-stream should cover all your needs (independent control by one app or synchronization of all by Party mode).

As I do not have any experience with n-stream some n-stream users here should be able to confirm this assumption…

Thanks for your reply Chesky.

I see a few issues here:

Can the HDX and Uniti products be made to play the same thing simultaneously?  Someone else has commented that he thinks not.

Unit products can be controlled by n-Stream, and the HDX by n-Serve.  Even if HDX and Uniti could play simultaneously I'd have to flip back-and-forth between apps to select music etc.   

Uniti products include an amplifier, so n-Stream can control all aspects of functionality including volume.  The HDX has to be plugged into an amplifier (in my case a Nait XS) which n-Serve can't control, so I'd need to add the Nait XS into the control mix as well.  I have Redeye Remote which allows me to control the Nait XS over IP rather than infra red but, even so, that means flipping to a third app on top of n-Stream and n-Serve.

Maybe there is just no alternative to NaimNet for the seamless, easily-controlled system that I want?  Or else I'm back to the question I first asked - is my only alternative to NaimNet to ditch the HDX and build a system based solely on streamers?

For my understanding the HDX cannot be synchronized with streamers as they are both controlled by different apps (n-serve and n-stream). The same issue applies for the volume control.

In any case you need to have a Streaming server in order to run Streaming Clients. In your case you would have the perfect Server with the the HDX and additional Streaming Clients (Unitis) as per your Needs.

I wish the HDX had an export tags to WAV files.  This would take the data from the XML files and insert it into the WAV files.  Then most conversion and file interface issues would go away.

Hi, endlessnessism,

What requirements do you have that cause you to prefer NaimNet to the analog solution I suggested?    I too am considering NaimNet, but think it is only applicable where you want to conceal the sources and drive high-end speakers -- a pretty specialized scenario, and relatively expensive.

My top priorities are time-sync everywhere, and "better-than-expected sound quality" in each zone, given the pieces used and the way the room is used.  WiFi remote control from all zones is also my reqirement.

If you like the way your HDX sounds in your primary system, I think you might be pleasantly surprised how good it sounds in Zone 2 through a decent system via Line-in.  But you seem to have ruled this out and I wondered why?

Thank you.

Nick

Nick,

What you describe was my multi-room solution in another house about ten years ago.  It was fine as far as it went.  I had a system upstairs and another downstairs (components got switched back-and-forth so neither system was consistently my main one) linked, as I recall, by four-core cable from tape-out to aux-in.

In replicating this kind of thing, my first limitation is that I have Cat 6 cabling throughout the house but not the sort of cabling that can be used in the way you are describing to link systems that are quite far apart, in different rooms and on different floors.  Or is it somehow possible to use an adapter that allows Cat 6 cable to be connected to an amplifier?

Also, I'm looking for something a bit more sophisticated than I had before, ideally with one Ipod or Ipad app to control everything from source and music selection to volume control in all locations. 

The fact that I cannot see a NaimNet system demonstrated gives me some pause; though I am willing to give Naim benefit of the doubt.  I have never witnessed any IP-networked multi-zone solution offered that did not have time-synch and/or SQ compromises I cannot tolerate.  Your findings to the contrary will be very welcome.

I think your CAT-6 wiring can be leveraged for analog solutions using "baluns", with which I have no experience (yet); also, B&O use CAT-6 extensively for their whole-house solutions.  Interestingly, I believe they use it for analog, not digital signal (not certain) especially to connect their older MasterLink multi-zone solutions.  I will have more experience to share on this soon, as I am doing three zones of B&O on the Bedroom-level, with ability to play from the main Naim system.  I have a lot of old B&O gear I'd rather keep than give away for nothing.  I am integrating the old with one of their new TVs -- we'll have to see if I like the result.

Thank you for this useful dialog.

Nick

I think this is going to end in a wishlist for Naim R&D:

(1)  The HDX to operate as a UPNP server for Naim network players (as it already does) but also to play-along simultaneously with them. I don't want to use the HDX for no more than its ripping and server capability, and neglect its play-back capability, and I certainly don't want to have to buy a network player for the room in which I have the HDX just so that I can include that room in my multi-room setup.

(2)  A merger of n-Serve and n-Stream so that the merged app will control both the HDX and the network players. As others have commented, things may already be moving in this direction.

(3)  IP control for Naim amps, so that you can control volume and source selection in rooms where the player (HDX, say) does not have an integrated amp. This, and integrating it with n-Serve / n-Stream, is likely to be the trickiest thing to achieve. My Nait XS has the option (not-fitted) for RS-232 control but I think this may have been ditched for the Nait XS 2 and anyway it's hardly the consumer-friendly solution that we need. (A possible alternative is the Sonos solution - you leave the amp at a constant volume and adjust the signal that goes into it).

Sorry to butt in on this, but once the library is stored as FLACs, do they automatically transcode to WAV when they go to the streamer?

ALso, does it mean that I can then copy files off the HDX onto a NAS and the NAS can then serve them via upon - but with metadata intact?

Many Thanks!

1.  They do not automatically transcode to wav, but you can enable this function using n-Serve for OS X, the DTC, or the web client (I think re the web client).

2.  I assume so -- they seem to be pretty std. flac w/ metadata embedded.

Instead of using several control apps, you can just use a third party control app such as ELyric, which will find all UPnP severs and allow you to stream to whichever player you wish. Not sure about synchronised playing though as I currently only have one player!