English Pronunciation Question:
Posted by: Russ on 11 January 2014
Folks,
I confess that I, like most Americans, are something of an Anglophile--I am much more likely to purchase a product or service from a company represented by a British--or Aussie--spokesperson than one from, say, Mississippi. 
Moreover, as a student of British and American literature, I have to say that I find the former to be superior in almost every way. I fancy myself something of a shit house Henry Higgins in that I have a great deal of interest in our language, its variations, and its history. I am currently reading Beowulf in the OE and translating it word-for-word using various tools (one of which virtually accomplishes the translation for me.)
But if British literature is better than American, I have to say that British television productions--the kind we typically see on our public broadcasting stations--is so far superior to that in my own country as to defy description. So my wife and I purchase and watch a great deal of British material.
With that background, "Jeeves and Wooster" and "Doc Martin" all digested, we recently bought and devoured every single episode of "Foyle's War" with Michael Kitchen and Honeysuckle Weeks. And I have a question about British pronunciation as it relates to class. First, a couple of disclaimers: I know we are talking about fictional characters--not real life, and I also know times change. But the question is this: I can clearly distinguish between the pronunciation of the "upper-class" and say, Honeysuckle's character Samantha. I can ascertain that they learned their pronunciation in their drawing rooms and clubs as well as at Eton, Cambridge, and Oxford--whereas Sam would have learned hers in the middle-class streets and schools where she grew up.
Perhaps it is just my ear, but I cannot distinguish between the pronunciation of the "upper class" and those in service to them at very high levels--the butlers and housekeepers. Jeeves speech seems just as precise and high-born to me as that of Wooster--Foyle, as much so as his superiors. Assuming that in this case, fiction truthfully depicts reality, where are such people educated--and how do they achieve that degree of high-class sounding speech--enough to make me buy an ultra light hose that costs too much? 
Best regards,
Russ
Jan-Erik: Really great stuff on both their parts. Knowing me, as you no doubt do, as the maggot-infested conservative I am 
, you will not be surprised at my approval of another of Shaw's utterances:
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
Also, I have no proof of this, and a cursory google of it did not produce anything, but I have always heard that Shaw at one point was engaged in dinner conversation with a breathless, blonde, buxom Hollywood starlet who supposedly said:
"Oh, Mister Shaw, with my looks and your brains, we should have children."
To which the supposed reply was:
"Yes, my dear, but what if they had my looks and your brains."
On the other hand, I have already put words in the Queen Mum's mouth that she never spoke.
Best regards,
Russ
Cheers Kevin, I also missed that.
By the way, you must have seen the Melvin Bragg interview with Dennis Potter shortly before cancer finally took him. I will never forget the moment when he had to stop momentarily during the televised interview to take a swig of morphine (I believe). Truly, one of the most moving interviews I have ever seen.
Jason.
Remember it well Jason. Gripping telly.
It was liquid morphine DP was swigging. He was also defiantly smoking away throughout. He also told how he's christened his tumour "Rupert", after that nice Mr Murdoch, of whom he was not a fan...
Yes, chain smoking all the way.
My other favourite, for completely different reasons, is Melvin Bragg interviewing Francis Bacon for a documentary on his painting career which i have on DVD.
About half way through the documentary, they decide to go for lunch in a Soho restaurant. They proceed to get drunk, Bacon actually plastered and then explains how being homosexual directs the way he paints male flesh in a way that somehow he hopes to capture the "violence of life" or it's "voluptuousness".
"Cheerio!"
One of my favourite Francis Bacon quotes; "I am a very optimistic person, I am optimistic about nothing".
Jason.
Don't recall the Bacon thing Jason, but it sounds good - will have to try and track it down. When I was a student in London in the early 1980s (I was studying history of art) me and my mate actually went to one of his regular Soho haunts (The Coach & Horses, I think) to see if he would talk to us. We found him sure enough, he was standing there, utterly pissed, on his own, but neither of us had the nerve to actually speak to him. 
Hi Kevin,
If you are interested there are parts of the documentary on that tube thing.
But if you are into his work and him as a guy and you don't mind Mr Bragg, then it was actually a South Bank Show doc from 1985 which can be purchased on Amazing on, I highly recommend it.
Jason.
Thats a big shame you did not approach him, I am sure he would have been accommodating.
Hi Kevin,
If you are interested there are parts of the documentary on that tube thing.
But if you are into his work and him as a guy and you don't mind Mr Bragg, then it was actually a South Bank Show doc from 1985 which can be purchased on Amazing on, I highly recommend it.
Jason.
Thats a big shame you did not approach him, I am sure he would have been accommodating.
Bragg gets a lot of stick, but I rather like him (though not his bloody awful novels). I will deffo track him down.
As for Bacon being accomodating, well my mate and I were very pretty in an early 1980s way, but I think he preferred a bit of rough
For some reason, the damned sound isn't working on my laptop, but my thanks for the clips and the reference to the Bergen-Belsen piece.. I will view them when allowed computer time by my wife.
Kevin: Your mention of Isadora Duncan stirs a few of my more deteriorated brain cells--for whatever reason, I usually told the story using either Jane Mansfield or Marilyn Monroe--you have to understand that most of MY mates--who tend to be what we in my neck of the woods refer to as "good old boys", wouldn't have a clue as to the identity of Isadora Duncan. I have always tried to show them mercy. However, in the future, I think I will tell the story using Isadora--and toss in that the whole tale is nothing more than a Shavian chiasma!
Joe: I know you were flipping the shit at me--but you needn't have--a well known coffee producer in your home town ships it down here by the metric ton and sells it for two bucks a cup!
Best regards,
Russ